Paul Daugherty: Boorish fans

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Boorish fans

SportsTalk topic last night centered on drunks at ballgames. Or, rather, the behavior of drunks at ballgames. Some folks seem to think it's OK to get hammered at the ballyard and mess with the experience of others. Some other folks defend them by saying they work hard, they deserve to kick back, tell your young kids to get over it etc.

Nope. Sorry. Buying a ticket doesn't come with a jackass license. The fact that someone works hard doesnt entitle him to do whatever he damn well pleases in public, especially if he's messing with someone else's good time. Most of us work hard. Most of us wouldnt think of getting sloppy drunk in public.

There was a segment awhile back on the HBO series, Real Sports. (Bryant Gumbel, horrible on the NFL Network, is very good on this.) It was about drunks tailgating before NFL games. Essentially, their attitude was, they had a right. It's an attitude pervasive now: It's about Me. Screw You. Everybody has rights. No one has responsibilities. You see it everywhere, but the selfishness and inconsideration it embodies shows up most at sporting events.

If a moron wants to act a fool, he has a right. And you have a right to call the cops and have him busted.

45 Comments:

at 11:03 AM

Anonymous said...

Right on, Doc! I think part of the problem is people pay such a high price for tickets these days, it equals a sense of entitlement for them. I used to get drunk at the ball games, but I eventually grew up. Some of these guys think they can drink like they did when they were in their 20's. It is difficult to go to the games now. Can I sit in the press box with you next time?

at 11:09 AM

Tom D. said...

First off: Act a fool? Have you ever said that out loud?
Second: Right on about the drunks, and more importantly, the lack of responsibilities.
And to say you have the right to get sloppy drunk at any sporting event is ridiculous.
And for the working hard comment, here's a classic quote from one of the best Christmas movies of all time, Christmas Vacation:
[after Clark fails at lighting all the exterior Christmas lights at the "lighting ceremony" in front of the entire family]
Frances: Talk about pissing your money away. I hope you kids see what a silly waste of resources this was.
Audrey: He worked really hard, Grandma.
Art: So do washing machines.

at 11:36 AM

Anonymous said...

It's just the general break down in civility in society. Loud talkers in restaurants, incessant cell phone use, people pushing the back of the seat in theaters, sports games drunks, and of course, don't say anything because the offender might pull out a gun and shoot you. So what else is new?

at 11:39 AM

Rob Bernard said...

I really don't think drinking is the problem so much as it's just people being a jerk/idiot. Before every game don't they show the Code of Conduct and say that fans should be able to enjoy the game in an environment free of foul and abusive language? Maybe it's time to stop moaning about the drinking and address the real problem: That the Code of Conduct isn't actually enforced.

The idiots in the row behind me yesterday weren't doing it because they were drunk, they were just jerks. Shouting "F*** YOU!" at the players at the top of their lungs from the 11th row of the View Level... Complaining "I can't see the F***ing field because of this guy's "F***ing umbrella!!!" during the oh-so-important presentation of the fruit basket... Shouting "WHO?!?!" at the introduction of every D-backs player... (My favorite of the day though was when one group of jerks was shouting "162-0" and then changed it to "161-1!" another group of jerks started complaining that the other group were idiots because they didn't know there were 163 games in the season.)

No amount of restrictions on drinking is going to fix that kind of stuff. What's needed is something like the Jerk Line the Bengals have, a way for conscientious fans to report the idiots so that the Reds can enforce the Code of Conduct they have in place.

at 11:49 AM

Cheviot Sports Authority said...

I always love the "holier than thou" posts.

ST CSA

at 12:03 PM

Anonymous said...

Give me my HD Sony Bravia and a cold beer at home with my wife, daughter and friends for a Reds or Bengals game anytime. I had Bengals season tickets for quite a while. I can handle the occasion drunk or rowdy fan. But now, the drunks who could care less about actually enjoying the game far outweigh the people just having a good time. Luckily I can choose the better and cheaper view on HD.

at 12:28 PM

Anonymous said...

The Bryant Gumble piece on Real Sports was really good addressing this problem.

at 12:45 PM

Unknown said...

I wish I could afford to be drunk and obnoxious at the games

at 12:52 PM

Unknown said...

Since there are many anti-drunk posts (counting Docs), I figured I'd defend the poor old sot from those who think so little of his achievements.

My favorite drunks are the red-faced, barrel-bodied variety who look like heart attacks waiting to happen. I say that this soul has only a few years left before the axle grease clogging his arteries takes him to the big brewery in the sky -- so show a little compassion, guys. Interesting that this species of drunk has a vocabulary that begins with "uhhhhh..." and ends with "f........" Who can deny that they add real depth to the public discourse? Obama's preacher would be proud!

I have a special place in my heart for the "puke-in-public" kind of drunk, providing they find interesting times a places to demonstrate their skill. Honestly, who can deny that the staggering lout a few rows over spewing his previously chewed and partially digested $7 hot dog and $20 bag of peanuts all over the fan fated to be seated in front of him is providing fodder for conversation for YOUR entire evening? You will remember it for years. Seriously....consider giving the guy a medal. He performs a public service.

You can disagree with me on this, but, if you could pick any guy at the ballpark to get a little pickled, wouldn't we have the most fun of all if it would be the .... home plate umpire?

Think about it.

There are other drunks too numerous to mention. Consider the "drunken couple who don't really like each other," or the "angry drunk who thinks the usher is PO'd at him."

We should NEVER forget the "drunken babe who has little sense of decency...."

She probably is the best argument for us to reserve any hasty judgments about ballpark drunks.

They may be boobs, but then again.... they may be boobs.

I rest my case.

at 1:01 PM

Randy said...

I had someone sitting behind me also tossing out the occasional F-bomb. I put up with it until it got obscene. I immediately got up, found an usher and asked him to speak with the loser. The usher did and everything was fine after that.

Sometimes I think *I* should say something to them first, but then I think #1 I don't want a confrontation and #2 It's the usher's job.

The usher didn't question me. He went right to the offender and spoke with him. I think the process worked perfectly.

Randy

at 1:44 PM

Cheviot Sports Authority said...

I guess since you can't pick on the smokers at the outdoor ballpark anymore, it is time to focus on the occasional inebriated fan. I have seen some obnoxious rowdy fans at ballgames once in while, but it sure as hell is not a major problem.

Let's have a JERK LINE. That would be cool.

ST CSA

.

at 1:49 PM

Anonymous said...

There's a problem with drinking and sports, but it's not reserved for the US. Ever been in London when an EPL game lets out?

I do agree that these idiots go way to far. I've definitely been overserved at a game before, but don't feel the need (or at that point have the energy) to act like an ass. You got it right Paul...everyone has rights but nobody has responsibility.

at 1:54 PM

Anonymous said...

As is relates to ball games, the crown behavior at Bengals games are far worse that at Reds games, probably because the ritual of tailgating Sundays and only 10 home games a year.

While I am no saint, I will NEVER take my young child to a Bengals game (at least not in the cheap seats), because of the vile and often violent behavior of the fans. I don't mind an occasional f-er, but when it is used in every sentence by drunks who just want attention - I'll pass.

I have had my fair share of "good times," but as a general comment I see that binge drinking and subsequent behavior is getting far too out of control. And no, I did not walk 10 miles to school barefoot back in my day :-)

at 2:07 PM

Anonymous said...

While we're on fans, why don't we hit all of them? What about parents who bring their kids and allow them to run around unchecked, knocking over drinks and food, and screaming their head off? What about those who tell you to shut up when you're yelling after a big play? What about those who yell and insist you sit down at the first hint of you standing up at a game? Are they not a pain too? And don't get me started on the Jerk Line at PBS. Last year, there was a group sitting behind us who was yelling, swearing, and throwing peanuts at us. Then they called the jerk line, and had two of my friends removed. That worked real well.

at 2:16 PM

Anonymous said...

pertaining to chad...

i've never been a big fan of mike browns...probably never will but i will say that if he took the stance with chad...told him he's under contract that he can just sit on the bench(and be paid) or sit out(and not be) you deceide...then i would really have to rethink my opinion on mr. brown...let the big baby sit in a corner...see then how he reacts..we can find another less selfish receiver/player

at 2:21 PM

Haystacks Calhoun said...

Agreed....sitting in the basement watching in HD makes it tougher to want to get out to the ballpark. That said, I enjoy nothing more than taking my 9 year old daughter to Reds games, we've been going since she was one and a half, in fact, she told me this weekend that we need to go to more games.

To defeat the public louts, I plan on taking her to uncrowded games (many), we simply buy the two cheapest tickets in the place, and move around whenever we feel like it. We bring our own bottles of water, we'll have a hot dog or two, some Dippin Dots, I might have A beer, maybe.

We make a day of it, hit Sawyer Point after the game, that combined with parking downtown and walking a bit, we get out spending, at most, $30.

I don't bother confronting drunks when she's with me, we'll just get up and move somewhere else. She's old enough and intelligent enough to see them for what they are, and know why they are behaving that way.

There is no way on earth, though, that I would ever dream of taking her to a Bengals game. We've been able to enjoy PBS by going to the high school games that are hosted there every year, and we love it.

I like to get blitzed myself on occasion, but the buffoons in and around PBS take it to a different level. If I'm going to get that blasted, I'll do it in my own home. Paying $80 a ticket does not give Joe Sixpack the right to ruin the experience for everyone else. If i'm going to get drunk, yell, scream, and "act a fool", it will be in my basement.

at 2:51 PM

Anonymous said...

Paul: Both Bengal and Reds management (as well as MLB and the NFL) have studiously avoided dealing with the issue. Comments routinely "accepted" at sports venues would be cause to have people evicted at stores, restaurants, movies, plays etc. It is not a good idea to bring kids to a Bengals game or sit in the upper deck at GABP; the language isn't even befitting a drunken sailor.

at 3:21 PM

Anonymous said...

This is the sort of attitude that makes downtown Cincinnati so pathetically boring. Some people go to the game to spend quality time with their family, some people go to the game to pay outlandish prices for a beer and horse around with their friends. Why can't grown adults learn to shrug off this stuff? If anything the bad behavior of drunks can serve as a talking point for adults to address their kids about poor, immature behavior in public settings.

If you feel like someone is being especially out of line -- by all means contact and usher and have the problem addressed; But don't spoil the time of other responsible adults because you can't get over the apparant "pain" and "anguish" you had to endure for a couple of innings. An America where an adult can't indulge in a cold beverage at a ball game is not an America I know. Get over it guys.

Like ya Doc...
But can't we talk about what really matters when it comes to the Reds... like winning a pennant?

at 4:17 PM

Anonymous said...

I don't think I'm going out on a limb suggesting that decorum and manners have evaporated in the last few years. I think it's all part of the baby-boomer "it's all about me" philosophy.

While I don't want to make excuses for adults acting like clowns, I suggest we keep in kind that most pro leagues, and in particular the NFL promote the notion of the fanatic fan. When is the last time you saw an NFL highlight film without the crazy Raider fan or the big guy in the dog pound? The NFL promotes it, they encourage it.

at 5:04 PM

Anonymous said...

Unless you are a complete lightweight...it is gonna cost you a hundred bucks to get drunk at a baseball game. That should be punishment enough.

at 5:39 PM

Scott Evans said...

Doc,

I completely agree with you, though its not just drunks its simply idiots. Best way to handle them is not nicely but firmly tell them to shut up. Last year at opening day I was sitting first row behind the time warner sign in CF, there were hecklers yelling at Griffey for a number of things including an Encanarcion mistake. While it was PG-13 at worst I was getting tired of it, turned around and told them simply shut up. Didn't hear a word from them the rest of the game. At the Angels game last year I went to sitting in the dugout seats behind 3rd base, another heckler this time dropping F-bombs and S-bombs loudly while there were kids around. Again I firmly told him to shut up and quit cussing as there's kids around, again not a word rest of the night. Oddly enough I think people feel if they pay more money for a ticket they have the right to say and do about anything they want. Sitting in the Mezzanine this year's opening day no problems at all, other than over hearing someone ask who the Reds were playing during the rain delay.

at 5:49 PM

Anonymous said...

Wow Paul..Arizona has souless communities that are barren and people sit in their den watching ESPN...Many folks here are supporting the same thing...When will you ever learn?

at 6:56 PM

Anonymous said...

Let me just say this to those who don't think its a big problem. I'm 22. I drink. I've been drunk on many occasions. Not once was did I do something indecent... and I have been so drunk I tipped a bouncer who kicked me out of a bar once. Thats pretty drunk. Maybe I'm an exception, but it is hard for me to believe the people who act like they do are really out of control because of the alcohol. I tend to believe that they use alcohol as an excuse to do some of what they do. Not saying they would do those things if not drunk, but being drunk makes it more acceptable in certain instances.

I usually have no problem with drunk people. This coming from a guy who has been around a lot of them. I've spent my fair share of time in bars/parties being completely sober. If I'm driving, I don't drink at all. Believe me, those drunks are just as obnoxious in bars. You just usually don't mind because it is a bar. Ballparks are different. You have kids in attendance, you are watching an event you actually care about, and you expect others to respect the fact that you are there to watch the game. Instead, most of these people act like it is about them having the right to do whatever they want and if it bugs you, you shouldn't be there even though you are there for the purpose intended, watching a baseball game. They should be allowed to talk however loudly, profanely, and disrespectfuly they wish.

We sat in the bleachers on Monday. We were absolutely surrounded by drunks. Absolutely wasted people yelling at everyone who stood up because someone got thrown out for refusing to sit down. Different story, but these people were using the f bomb every other word. I'm not saying I have a clean mouth, but there were kids sitting right in front of these people. The father turned around and asked them to tone down their language. They told him to f off they could talk however they f'n wanted. Then just started swearing to make him mad. A lot of the others joined in and started laughing. I mean a lot of others all around. Eventually, security came, and the drunks said, I have the right to talk however I f'n want. You can't f'n kick me out you f'er. Needless to say they were gone. The funny thing is the guy who got kicked out for standing had nobody sitting behind him. The only reason he got kicked out was because somebody was annoyed. When he got kicked out everyone applauded. When the F bandits got kicked out, everyone booed. That will give you and idea of how that crowd was.

at 9:14 PM

Chris S. said...

I know this topic came up some years ago in one of Paul's columns because I remember e-mailing him and saying that the only way this "problem" will ever go away is if teams stop selling alcohol at sporting events. In his response, Paul correctly pointed out that that would never happen. And nothing has changed since Paul and I's brief correspondence.

Nonetheless, whether or not behavior at baseball games is an indication of society's moral disintegration (or, for that matter, whether or not moral disintegration actually exists because we are all perhaps getting old and becoming the sort of people who say these things, sort of like how your grandfather you at the time called crazy did when he was the age you are at now) is debatable.

at 10:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Reds and Bengals games are two very different events. Bengals games are not for children under the age of 8 or 9. Sorry those of you who think the world revolves around your 4 year old but it is the truth. There will be yelling cursing and drunkenness. People will stand up and act wild. Thats part of it and it is fun (though it can be taken too far. At that point get a cop). Reds games are different. There is no need to stand and block someones view. THere are more families and young children, so an f-bomb every other word is not apporiate. Drink at the game but have some class for Gods sake. After the game go to a local bar and do it big. But dont use a few bad apples to promote your sissy boozeless society. If someone is causing your family a problem at the game grow a pair and handle it like a man!!!

at 10:42 PM

Anonymous said...

Very simple way to cure this "drunken obscenity" problem.

If you think of the Reds management as the source of the pollution because they continue to allow the sale of alcoholic beverages at games, have them sit among the pollution they create....the drunken fans.

Make Reds management, from the very top on down, sit in the stands with the common folk...not in their isolated suites or seats right on the field.

When polluters have to live among the pollution they create, they always take steps to eliminate the source of the pollution.

An age-old strategy that always works.

at 6:51 AM

Anonymous said...

Most people can have a beer or two at the game and they are fine. I believe that you get most of the drunken fools during opening days or weekend night games.

And judging by his/her response,the CSA is one drunken fools!

at 6:56 AM

Anonymous said...

About six or seven years ago I had the misfortune of sitting in front of two young couples who were consuming heavily. At first they were entertaining. By the third inning most around us had vacated the area. My family and I stuck it out as we are not accustom to having such good seats. The behavior and language deteriorated throughout. After 6 1/2 innings the 'ladies' went to the restroom and to get more drinks. I took this opportunity to switch seats, sitting down next to the two young men, introduced myself and gave each a firm handshake, and I explained to them how their behavior was wrong. I also explained to them what behavior was to be expected for the rest of the game and what the consequenses might be for non-compliance. No voices were raised, just a clear and direct message. The two young men offered a quick appology and asked if it would be ok if they were to just leave. When they were excused and I returned to my seat I received a rousing ovation from those remaining in the surrounding sections. The funny thing is the 'disturbance' of the ovation brought two ushers and a policeman to the area to see what was going on. They never quite understood why people kept comming up to me to try to buy me beer.

at 8:07 AM

Anonymous said...

I went to the game on Monday and I personally was disgusted by the lack of interest in the game. People like me have to pay a lot of money to even go the game and watch it. Half the people at the game are standing in the concourse just drinking it up and having a fun old time while the game is going on. That bothers me. They don't even watch the game and they probably do not know what is going on. They probably are not baseball fans too. They just come to Opening Day because it is big thing to do and just drink like crazy. Baseball is suppose to be a family atmosphere, not a bar.

at 8:38 AM

Anonymous said...

I had a similiar experience as well. A few frat boys got a little too rowdy in our section and I politely mentioned to them that they should either calm down or leave. They handled it very well and left (probably to another section). I was thanked by several people and before I knew it, several people had purchased food and drink for me. Ironically, I ended up getting pretty drunk myself, although not rowdy.

at 8:48 AM

Anonymous said...

So what were the consequences going to be, 6:56?

at 10:40 AM

Anonymous said...

What is the big deal about people cussing? Why must all standards conform to that of a 6 year old? They're just foul language, people. It's not like they're attacking you with their words.

And enough about with the canard that this "problem" is a new thing and another manifestation of the decay of civility in modern society. At Reds games 50 years ago, fans were screaming the most vile, hateful, racist garbage at the black players on the field. F#$% and s#!& don't compare.

at 10:45 AM

Anonymous said...

6:56
What a hero!

I would have punched your lights out!

at 11:13 AM

House of Cards said...

big t, I looked all over my Bengals' tickets, and all over their web site. I didn't see the fine print anywhere about how kids under 8 or 9 were not welcome.
Who are you to decide where someone can and can not take their kid?
what is taking it too far in your book? maybe in someone else's book, that line is much further back. Again, who are you to decide?
Why should one expect cursing and blocking peoples view at Bengal games but expect different behavior at Reds games?
Again, the problem isn't beer at the game. In most cases it is just people who think it is all about them, and their sense of entitlement. Yelling? Standing up and Cheering? I don't hear anyone asking that to be off limits. F-bombs? Standing the entire time because you feel it is your little contribution to the atmosphere? sorry. those have no place at any event. I'm no saint either, but I do realize I have an obligation to those around me. Maybe you should try and discover one too, along with Saint CSA......

at 11:48 AM

Paul Daugherty said...

1040... good point, I guess, about 50 years ago... is it too much to ask that we up the ante on civility in, you know, half a century?

at 1:04 PM

Anonymous said...

Opening Day is a social occasion. People don't pay much attention to the game throughout the year, much less on opening day. Fact is, this isn't a baseball town.

Oh..and 6:56 Anon is a douche.

at 2:18 PM

Anonymous said...

Paul,

My point was directed to those, like Anon 11:36 AM, who think things are always worse now than they were years ago; that everything is another example of the breakdown of the great morality that flourished in "better times."

Sorry, that's BS. Being drunk, loud, and obnoxious in public isn't a 21st century creation. I bet people made similar complaints in the 1950s - that the Aughts were so much more civil.

And, again, please tell me what is sooooo bad about the F word that your children mustn't hear it or else you'll beat the crap out of me (talk about civility)? Oh the children, the children!!!! Why do we have to cater to them? If your kid is really corrupted by the drunk 25 year old at the Reds game saying "F^&* Pujols!!!" well, you aren't a very good parent.

Get over it. You can't keep your kids in a protective bubble. If they go out where adults are, they might hear adult language. It won't kill them.

at 3:01 PM

Anonymous said...

Great responses to Doc's commentary.

Especially liked UCfan79's humorous message.

How do drunks get to/from the ball park?
If you're driveing it isn't funny. Too many drunks have killed too many good folks.

6:56 - At your age I would have agreed with most of what you said, but I'm much older than you.

For me it was down hill until I hit bottom, and heard wise words at AA meetings from recovering drunks like me. Life is much more enjoyable sober, which I've been for 25 years.

Perhaps I'll see you at a meeting some time in the future.

at 3:36 PM

Anonymous said...

I must agree wholeheartedly.

I work for a certain local pizza company that now offers delivery to your seat at GABP. It's bad enough you deal with obnoxious, dilusional drunks having food sent to their home, but when you have them calling from GABP screaming that it's been more than 15 minutes and want their food free.

This OD, I dealt with a gentleman (term used very loosely) who repeatedly called from his seat, bitching that he didn't have his food. The drunk was calling 2-3 hours after the order was placed. Story was that the food was indeed delivered on the first attempt and was accepted by someone in that section who claimed he was "Eric."

Whether it was the real Eric, or someone just playing the role, is unknown and irrelevant when you are so blasted you refuse to look at things rationally and realistically. Perhaps a few experienced bouncers wandering the yard could have some fun dragging these special people to the gate.

at 4:18 PM

Paul Daugherty said...

Hey, Pizzaman... I wouldnt mind talking to you further.. drop me an e-mail at montreatman@aol.com if you like... thx

at 5:09 PM

Anonymous said...

What is pathetic is grown adults paying good money to see other grown men with a sub 80 iq throw a ball around, Then you get clothes that advertise for the team, and the team not only doesn't pay you for advertising for them you pay them!!! And you get upset because some player takes a substance that you deem to be against the rules. You guys need to get a life.

at 6:37 PM

Anonymous said...

6:56 (Hillary?) - good story until you got to the part how, after you dressed them down, they asked you if "it was OK for them to leave".
Hillary on "Bosnia sniper fire" was much more believeable. In your dreams.

at 9:42 PM

Anonymous said...

Swear to it. They asked if it was ok if they could just leave. Yes they were intimidated, but more than anything embarrassed for themselves and looking for a way out. Had their girlfriends been around they may have felt the need to man up. I was aware of that possibility and felt comfortable with what the outcome would likely be.
10:45 A few have tried that over the years and a couple have even experienced some level of success. I've been down that road with some of the best. Those two made their choice. You may have chosen differently. Hope to see ya at a game someday.

-6:56

at 8:08 AM

Cheviot Sports Authority said...

6:56 An internet tough guy. LMAO!

at 10:12 AM

Anonymous said...

6:56 is my hero. (but who's isnt he) I look at it this way. Baseball is not a drinking game. Baseball is a little bit more family oriented. I may have a beer ($7) but thats about it. it isnt a rowdy game and rowdy fans at a baseball game are some of the most annoying people to grace the sports world (that and old guys talking baseball trivia [i love the good old day mentality but it tends to get annoying or go overboard) anyways, football is a different story. I would be lying if i said i didnt want to catch a nice little buzz before kick off (or even full blown drunk) but i have been able to control it. Yeah, maybe i am more enthusiastic about the game but it is all in good fun. Most of the people around me are mostly the same way. however, the violent drunks that start fights or shout out obscenities at a an incomplete pass on 1st and 10 in the first possesion need to go. those are the people that are most likely not only annoying at the stadium but at home too (notice the friends and girls/guys they have -not quite people persons). I raise my glass and to the casual drinker at a football game who can handle themselves (some times they can be a good laugh) keep the cursing, anger, and bad commentary out of it and you can get as hammered as you want (assuming you dont lurch)

Carson Palmer will be MVP (just sayin)

Mike from the south

Previous Posts

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Boorish fans

45 Comments: