Corey Patterson
Not sure what was achieved, unless there is a trade brewing. Signing players you think will fit what you're trying to do is fine. Signing them because they're available, cheap, older and played for you is something else. How many flyers have to be taken? D.Baker says he values young players, was one himself etc. But to quote Chairman Marv, I see better than I hear.
You can't show faith in the young guys while bringing in people over top of them. Patterson is here partly because Baker isnt convinced Bruce is ready. Fogg is here to step in for H. Bailey. Affeldt the same. All of which is OK if you're thinking you can win the Central. But if that was the plan, they needed to add quality starters. Now, the plan should be to get the kids in the games and see if they're all right. Hard to do when Patterson is patrolling CF and Fogg and Affeldt are going every 5th day.
It's early, all subject to change etc. But if I could predict the future, I'd be in Vegas. Can only go on what's occurring now. And now, the signals are mixed.
30 Comments:
I think the main reason for these pickups is to inject some competition into the mix...they don't want to replace the young guys, they just want to avoid handing them a role they didn't earn. Maybe they thought Bruce was getting a little too comfortable.
Doesn't psychology play a role in developing good talent?
You hit the nail on the head Paul. Corey Patterson is a 28 year old CF that had around a .330 OBP last year for a leadoff guy. Not too great. I hope Dusty doesn't start bringing in all his Cubbie retreads because last time I checked his last Cubs team was in last place. Play the kids!
Paul, what’s your deal? You are constantly negative on the reds and Bengals, a condescending negative tone comes through all your columns lately. Yeah, our teams have stunk but all the negativity is beyond annoying. I can't listen to your show anymore and I can hardly stand to read your blog. Enough is enough, its fine to report what is happening and lend your take on it, but at this point I don't think it matters what the teams do you'll find something negative to report! Dusty hasn't anointed anyone the center fielder yet, and bringing in vets for a role on the bench is the mark of a good team. Look at the Red Sox, they have a few guys likely riding the bench that could start for any other team in baseball and they aren't complaining! The Reds didn't say Patterson was going to be an everyday player or even on the roster for that matter. I think its time to wait until the final decision is made, and the results are in before whining about it!
Stecher... that's funny, last week I was getting junk for being too optimistic re the Reds and Dusty. Can't please everyone. As for the Bengals, sorry, but if you're not cynical after the last 17 years, you're not paying attention. I dont create the reality; I just reflect it. Teams and players dictate to a great extent what I have to say about them. Thanks.
Why is pointing out fact and applied action a negative, condescending tone?
When the (Cincinnati) sports team monkeys do, the eyeballs see. Or something like that.
Doc: It is people like Stecher in the Greater Cincinnati area that allow both the Reds and Bengals to always get a free pass on their annual ineptitude. These teams have both CONSISTENTLY been below500 year after year, have had very questionable management and do not appear to have a true passion for excellence. But for all of their combined ineptitude, you get people like Stecher who want to blame the media for simply reporting the train wrecks. Priceless !!!!!!!!!
Paul, your reports are better than fine. They're excellent. I also think a reporter's first job is honesty. Honesty isn't necessarily skepticism, but sometimes skepticism is called for.
I agree that if you're going with the youth movement, then you've gotta give them playing time.
How much of these moves has to do with Baker. I always understood the general manager was responsible for bringing in players. Is management so deferential to Dusty that they would scrap their plan to bring in only "his guys"?
Keep doing things just like you're doing them Paul. I have heard your interviews with Dusty and you are not afraid to ask him the same questions that you ask here. You may not always be right, but, I do think you are objective. You do not say things just to create controversy like your predecessor on WLW did and I like that.
Sorry Paul, I must've missed the optimism! Either way I'm looking forward to this year, and here's to hoping that by August we're both cheering the young Reds to a divisional championship, and with a little luck the world series!
Patterson is a legit leadoff man. Something we desperately need.
This Stecher dude is as clueless as Krivsky, Dusty, and Mike Brown.
Hey Stecher - the Reds and Bengals stink. They've stunk for years and don't look to be trying to change that anytime soon. Any negativity that surrounds them is their own fault.
Well said, Paul! Let Bruce, Bailey, and Cuetgo play...and fail. We are holding back the upward mobility of this franchise by bringing real fringy players like Patterson, Affeldt, and Fogg. Disappointing player evaluations from the new influences of Jocketty, Baker...
PS, Anonymous - Patterson is NOT a good leadoff hitter, please check the back of his baseball card for confirmation.
Anon 1:18 - Patterson is a legit leadoff hitter?!? What? Are you Dusty?
Paul,
I have a question. How are ticket sales going for the Reds? I can't believe they would be going well when it certainly appears the Reds are putting off the youth movement for yet another year. I'm just one fan, but if I am going to spend money to watch the Reds struggle, I'd prefer to watch a team with young enthusiastic players versus an aging team that has little hope of improvement. I know it is very early in the spring, but I'm not feeling the change of culture and enthusiasm level you mentioned last week when in my view you were overly optimistic. It really feels like the same old Reds to me. I realize the face of this team will be dramatically different next year with Griffey and Dunn likely gone, but I don't like or understand the direction the team appears to be heading.
Listen, I'm all for playing Bruce and Votto. I'm as hyped up as the next guy for a rotation of Harang, Arroyo, Bailey (diva), Cueto, dude from the Rangers whose name I'll spell wrong without looking it up. However, that being said, we can't ask for that but then complain when they are 25-55 at the All-Star Break.
That is the rub. Reds' fans (of which I'm one) typically preach patience and building, but then are losing their mind when the team is losing. We can't be hypocritical, we either tell Mr. Castellini we want a winner now (which has been the public's stance) or we're okay being bad for a couple of more years. Me, I'm not sure I can stomach two more years of bad.
Oh, yes, I realize that starting Affeldt, Belisle, Fogg certainly doesn't seem like the recipe for winning. I realize that. However, one has to believe this influx of veterans means they DO want to win in 2008 -- although this rotation seems REALLY thin, young guys or old guys involved.
Doc....
Four centerfielders? What's the big deal?
When you have no clearly articulated goal, every path will get you there.
There is a big difference between the Reds and Bengals here. Last year the Bengals went in to the season counting on the most optmistic scenario (no injuries, Odell back, Brooks working out, etc). The Reds are covering their bases instead of hoping for the best. I like that approach more.
This signing makes me scratch my head a little. Seems to indicate the Reds arent sure any of the youth corp is are ready. Or could be just like Baker sez, competition is good. Or maybe the Krivdawg has never met a marginal major league vet he didn't like. Or all three.
It's becoming a set strategy: load up on marginal vets who come pretty cheap. Harken back to the clubhouse in July 2 years ago. Revolving door. Ironic that Bowden did the same thing. It's called trying to 'catch lightning in a bottle'. And yes Brandon Phillips is working out pretty good, thank you very much. But in general scrap heap guys are in the junkyard for a reason.
It's gotta be tough for Hopper and Keppinger to deal with the influx. They earned a fair shot at playing regularly. Hopefully they will get it. I liked their bats and decent defense last year. the Reds could do worse. Far worse. But until they do it over a season, I think there's still legitimate concern that they're just flashes in the pan. Personally I don't think they are, but the Reds can't fire me. Hence the hedge. And if Patterson has improved his stroke, he could be a great utility guy.
The danger in a croweded camp is that some guys get overlooked. Too many marginal guys create clutter. It looks like Krivsky still has a fetish for older vets, while a lot of fans are crazy in love with the young fresh energy. It's early in spring, and as Ol Toothpick likes to point out, these things have a way of working themselves out.
My overall feeling: relax, enjoy the show, eat some popcorn, watch some strong position battles, and hope the Reds don't get conservative and go too old. I think they'll carry the 25 guys they think that best help them to win and that'll be it. They do want to win this year. They don't want to start a young kid just cuz he's got a great upside. Rush him and he struggles. They want to start a kid cuz he's ready.
We forget these kids are still really young. A little seasoning may be just what the doctor ordered. Time will tell.
I see nothing wrong in acquiring Patterson. The Reds need a bonified lead-off man and he fits the bill. Start him in centerfield this year with Jay Bruce as a backup, and I'm sure Jay will also get playing time backing up Griffey. Then next year there will probably be two openings in the outfield and Bruce can go to centerfield full time. I also like the idea of our young pitchers, if they don't start, to pitch in long relief to get experience in the bigs.
Paul - Jeff Brantley made a great guest on the HSL tonight.
I loved his response in regards to bringing Affeldt, Fogg, Patterson & Hairston into camp. Only Affeldt has a spot locked up. The other three are fighting for their playing lives. And if Bruce, Bailey, et. al. can't stand a little spring training competition, how in the world will they stand the competition of a regular season?
Also, gotta love Jeff's frankness regarding Homer. Gotta get rid of that big, loopy curve ball for something tighter, or he's not going to be successful at the major league level. I wonder if Jeff (and others) have said that directly to Homer, or if he's simply been too stubborn to listen.
Patterson's really shown flashes of greatness amidst his struggles (I am a Cubs and Reds fan alike). I won't hold my breath, but in a new environment with his old coach, he might be able to come into his own. After all, it was the Chicago large-scale cruelty that got him down and out.
Do you see any logic in that Paul?
Any reason Patterson WAS NOT picked up by anyone else yet???And now he has a shot to be our starting CF??
1245... Maybe. He is only 28. But I'm a big believer in baseball card wisdom. The back of the card suggests that after eight seasons, you are who you are. My biggest issue with it is, it keeps J. Bruce out of the lineup or out of the big leagues. I dont see the wisdom in that.
Paul, I don't remember who it was, but I was listening to WLW about a week ago, and someone (Brennaman?) was having a real hate fest regarding Homer Bailey. He didn't like Bailey's attitude, he didn't like Bailey's hunting knife, and he didn't particularly like Bailey's ability.
Last year everyone wrote how open Bailey was to listening, growing, changing, etc.
Part of me says, "Hey, he's only 21/22 years old." I wondered if it was a generation gap thing that was going on.
Is there a story there???
It took me a couple of days to figure out the latest Krivsky brainstorm free agent signing . But now I think I have it. With the injury to Gonzalez and Krivsky unwilling to admit that Keppinger can play SS, here is what is going to happen:
As soon as Patterson is ready to play, the Reds are going to go without a SS and play a 4 man outfield. This makes a lot of sense because with the defensive liabilities in LF and RF, a fourth outfielder would shore up defensively the worst outfield in baseball. This would then theoretically add another bat to the lineup to compensate for all of the balls going through the left side of the infield. Since (in Wayne's mind) Keppinger can't play SS anyway, whats the difference?
Sometimes it just takes a day or two to figure out the workings of Mr Krivsky's superior baseball mind.
UCFan... I dont recall a lot of talk about Homer listening...
I remember when Patterson was in Double "A" with the Cubs. They spent a lot of time trying to convince him to learn how to bunt.
Because of his speed doing it from time to time could really jump up his batting average.
If Dusty's comment that he has finally picked up that skill is right the Reds may have a legit lead-off man that has some pop in his bat.
From day one he'll be the fastest guy in the Reds lineup.
Patterson was considered a 5-tool prospect.
If he can live up to the hype he once had, he would be an amazing steal for the Reds.
Homer....listening
I'm referring to all those stories last year in this paper. I think they were about the time Homer came up. Maybe some were spring training stories.
The impression they gave (me) was that Homer was young, he was working on this/that and learning. If he didn't get it, he'd go learn it, practice it, wait to get it right, and be intentional about it.
Now, here's the rub. I went to the Enquirer's search engine to look for those articles, and I found their year old material was already archived. No problem with that -- sure, they could already be archived.
BUT, believe it or not, calling up a one year old or less article was impossible without paying for it.
They're kidding me. What a penny-ante operation that is.
After years on the web, I honestly can't recall any other paper I've run across that's so miserly as that. (Not your problem, I know. Belongs to someone in the business office, but....Enquirer... gimmeabreak!)
Paul, I don't always agree with what you write, but on this topic you couldn't be more right.
Any team, Reds, Bengals, your little league team, needs to have a team philosophy. A power team. A veteran team. A young rebuilding team. Pitching over hitting as a point of emphisis.
If a team gets a plan, drafts with that plan in mind, approaches free agency with that plan in mind, develops the players in it's system with that plan in mind, they will likely succed in their plan whatever it is. I think back to Nebraska Football. Same kind of quarterbacks running the same offense, handing off to the same kind of backs, always behind the same kind of lineman. They had a plan and worked it.
Reds are 'building through their minor league system.' Until spring comes along and the stars of that system are cast aside for guys who are proven in the bigs. Proven that they are marginal preformers.
The Bengals are a 3-4 if they can get Rogers. One player Now they are a 4-3 again. No Plan.
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