Fogg-y
Is there a split in philosophy in RedsLand, between those who want to win this year and those who want '08 to be a big test drive for '09? Could be.
You can't have it both ways. Now that Bedard is gone and Blanton is headed that way, play the kids. No point in bringing in a mediocrity like Josh Fogg, to take a bottom of the rotation spot that should go to Cueto or Volquez, at least for the time being. If you want to go with prospects, go with prospects. If you want to win now, do better than Josh Fogg. You can't do both.
posted by Paul Daugherty at 8:28 AM
24 Comments:
at 8:34 AM 
Anonymous said...
-
-
at 8:55 AM 
Anonymous said...
-
-
at 9:00 AM 
Paul Daugherty said...
-
-
at 9:08 AM 
Anonymous said...
-
-
at 9:37 AM 
Haystacks Calhoun said...
-
-
at 9:39 AM 
Anonymous said...
-
-
at 9:42 AM 
Allan said...
-
-
at 9:44 AM 
Anonymous said...
-
-
at 9:59 AM 
Anonymous said...
-
-
at 10:32 AM 
Paul Daugherty said...
-
-
at 10:35 AM 
Paul Daugherty said...
-
-
at 10:47 AM 
Anonymous said...
-
-
at 10:55 AM 
Cheviot Sports Authority said...
-
-
at 11:00 AM 
Anonymous said...
-
-
at 12:42 PM 
Anonymous said...
-
-
at 12:44 PM 
Cheviot Sports Authority said...
-
-
at 2:24 PM 
Haystacks Calhoun said...
-
-
at 2:35 PM 
Anonymous said...
-
-
at 3:10 PM 
Anonymous said...
-
-
at 3:39 PM 
Anonymous said...
-
-
at 6:59 PM 
Anonymous said...
-
-
at 8:30 PM 
Anonymous said...
-
-
at 9:26 PM 
Anonymous said...
-
-
at 1:55 AM 
Anonymous said...
-
-
Post a Comment*Is Blanton going to LA? My first thought this morning was that this makes acquiring Blanton more likely...another SP makes dealing one or two of the young arms more doable. No?
Geez, Paul, are you just against anything the Reds do lately? Are you taking the antagonistic stance to boost your appeal on talk radio? Take a listed to Lance McAllister -- you don't have to be a Furman to be successful on radio.
855...lately, they havent done much that makes sense to me... either you go young, or you don't... either you go all out to win this year, or you play the kids and see what they have...
Paul...agreed. But at $1M, they could just be buying an insurance arm to put in the bullpen, and I like the idea of making camp a little bit more competitive. I don't think this hurts more than it helps.
But at some point they have to dance with the girl they brought.
Paul,
Fogg's ERA at Coors last year was 5.97, compared to 4.15 on the road. Blanton's ERA was 2.69 in Oakland, compared to 5.11 on the road.
Also, Fogg was 3-0 with a 3.25 ERA in September last year, helping his team into the post season, and pitched well in the post season.
Fogg will also make 2.7 million LESS this year. For a million bucks for this year, Fogg is a great signing, gives them another proven starter, while keeping your hole cards in your pocket for future use.
I've never understood your infatuation with Joe Blanton. I could understand thinking about mortaging the future for Bedard (didn't agree with doing it if they did, but understood doing it), but Blanton is not worthy of trading what we would have to give up.
Simply put, Blanton is not markedly better than Fogg, not for this year, and not for next year. Blanton, when compared to Fogg, and considering that we get Fogg without giving ANYTHING up, is not with giving up Bailey and Votto for, for what MAY amount to 2-3 wins this year.
Doc--Fogg has 10 or more wins in each of the past six seasons, except for one. His win production is comparable to Arroyo. That gives us a ligit #1 and two #3/#4 guys. It's not flashy, but it should be an improvement.
WIN NOW! Honestly, the Reds last winning season was 8 years ago, which is ridiculous. Cincinnati is not Tampa Bay or Kansas City, but if this trend of waiting for the future to arrive continues, the Reds will always be competing for 4th place instead of first place.
Wayne, Bob, Walt - make a bold move that shows a desire to WIN NOW. Otherwise, who really cares?
Josh Fogg is a cheap insurance policy against the kids not being ready to start at the ML level and against the 'pen being a body short.
A $1M contract isn't enough to guarantee Josh anything. It could give the Reds the flexibility to put Alfeldt in the 'pen to replace Stanton, and allowing them to eat Mike's contract.
I agree that you should go with the youngsters. Because of that, the Reds should go out of their way to find a quality, big-league catcher.
Going with the young arms does not necessarily mean that you are throwing away the 2008 season.
Finally, I couldn't stand Furman. Maybe it's necessary to have some kind of shtick to make it on talk radio, even sports talk, but I detested that fake, high-pitched outrage that he felt he had to generate every program.
Count on it, WLW. You go there and you lose me as a radio listener. And please, Paul, don't bring that garbage to your writing.
Your strength has always been your superb writing, but just as important has been your honest take on things. Don't become some kind of freak sideshow.
Haystacks... 2.1 IP, 10h, 6r world series start...
959... controversy for the hell of it isn't my style, never will be... I'll always give you an honest opinion, no agendas, no three rings, no tag-team, in print and on the radio. Goal is always lively talk, thought-provoking and thoughtful. Guaranteed.
Ok, let's just talk wins and losses, a.k.a, Daugherty's yardstick:
Blanton: 14-10 @ $3.8 Million
Fogg: 10-9 @ $1 Million
That's a net loss of only 3 games at a net savings of a) $2.8 Million and b) all the prospects we get to keep.
Signing Fogg is fine, so long as he doesn't make the team. Its not my money Krivsky is wasting.
Isn't David Wells still available? I would like to see them sign him. Then come the end of May when the Reds are hopelessly buried by Krivsky's decisions, they could feature a cheese coney eating contest with the main event Stanton vs Wells.
HAPPY GARBAGE PICKING WAYNE!
I really like the move. I think signing a guy like Fogg now (#5 starter, innings eater) is a perfect move as part of a plan for 2009 and beyond. He's insurance, like another poster here said. If Bailey etc. need another season at AAA, or maybe are only ready for 50-80 IP at the MLB level, now you can let them do it.
I think it is smart (and accurate) to realize that we're probably no better than a .500 team in 2008, but we do have a chance (if the young kids turn out as promised) to become great starting sometime around 2009.
A Fogg signing fits well with that, I think.
Also, as a secondary note... just as Oakland deflates your ERA, Coors inflates it... I'm not going to say that Fogg is as good as Blanton... but I think the difference between them is not nearly as great as many people think.
Smart signing, if really at $1 million.
But why, Paul, why???
Fogg's a winner--he was 10-9 last year. Isn't winning everything???
Your credibility with yesterdays post about pithcng W-L records took a major hit. How's that clownsuit feel???
The one phrase that annoys me more than any right now is "innings eater'. Damn, pay me a million bucks and I'll throw 300 innings if you don't care what the score is.
Whatever happened to "contact pitcher"? I used to love that one to describe a guy who only records an out when the hitter smashes it right at someone.
I prefer adjectives like crappy, bad, rotten, stinks and terrible.
Paul,
What were Blanton's post season stats?
Who do we have to trade to get Fogg?
Waiting...
here is a crazy thought.... belisle could pitch about 200 innings this year and be a 4 guy. could fogg be an extra guy because you wont wanty these young guys throwing 200plus...
Paul, I love your show, but you are way off base on the Joe Blanton front, he is a decent pitcher not a great pitcher. Your recent guests Jim Callis, and Pete Rose echoed the sentiments of many fans that you are dismissing. I would rather lean on the youngsters, and have Josh Fogg as an insurance policy. They can DFA him if he doesn't perform, and the roster is no worse the wear. Compare their stats (go beyond counting stats like W-L, and innings)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/foggjo01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/blantjo01.shtml
I wish I could as bad at my job as you are at yours Paul. You have made yourself out to be one of the dumbest sports writers in America after this week.
Bengals fans don't know much, Paul, but we do know how to lose, and no one can take that away from us!
We don't need no steenking winning Redlegs.
$1 million is petty cash, utility-infielder money.
Don't think he's worth anymore than that but... what's to lose?
Not worth arguing about.
Paul:
It may be both. Its unheard of for a rookie to log 200 innings- arm strength/stamina/prior history isnt there. Thats why theyre high on Belisle....he has built himself up for a 200 inning type year. I think the brass would like to look back and have Bailey /Cueto develop into the rotation, not exceed 150 innings and build arm strength experience to count on every 5th day/200 innings next year.This als omay be Bray domino effect....Affeldt now headed to bullpen.
another year with a bunch of 4.5 to 5.0 era guys. we all know where that's taken us the past 7 years!!!
* Our online blogs currently are hosted and operated by a third party, namely, Blogger.com. You are now leaving the Cincinnati.Com website and will be linked to Blogger.com's registration page. The Blogger.com site and its associated services are not controlled by Cincinnati.Com and different terms of use and privacy policy will apply to your use of the Blogger.com site and services.
By proceeding and/or registering with Blogger.com you agree and understand that Cincinnati.Com is not responsible for the Blogger.com site you are about to access or for any service you may use while on the Blogger.com site. << Home