Interesting Bengals from Forbes
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Cincinnati-Bengals_306869.html
This is just the Bengals snapshot from the magazine's annual story on the value of NFL franchises... the teams constantly dispute Forbes' figures, but it's the best peek inside these privately held business we get, year to year, and it's authored by a reputable financial publication... key #: Bengals franchise worth, and that the worth has increased 11 pct in the last 12 months... how'd it be if your house increased 11 pct in value in a year? Many thanks should be forthcoming to the taxpayers of Hamilton County, for their generous contribution to the Brown Family vault, via tax money for PBS. We won't hold our collective breath.
posted by Paul Daugherty at 10:32 AM
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Post a Comment*Doc
Before all the Mike Brown is cheap post start can you tell us where the team is ranked league wide in payroll this year
Robert Young
Milford
doc,
if taxpayers voted to build you a house, would refuse their offer?
the voters could have defeated the referendum. columbus voters turned down several arena referendums (referendi?), and still wound up with a great venue that was financed privately, and a (so-called) nhl team, to boot.
Robert Young, I don't know the answer to your question (where the Bengals stand in relative payroll?) but would guess somewhere around the middle.
Do you know where they stand in their financial contribution toward the building of "their" stadium. I won't make you guess - they contributed the absolutely lowest percentage (of stadium cost) in the entire NFL.
Guess who contributed the rest >> answer = taxpayers. We're talking hundreds of millions of dollars.
Full disclosure >> are you related to the family or maybe Bob Bedinghaus?
This is a silly post. The Bengals lease PBS from Hamilton County don't they? It's not like they get to use it for free. If Hamilton County didn't negotiate a good lease, blame Hamilton County.
Paul, You're being too kind to the Bengals.
From the article, team value = $912,000,000, up 11% in last year.
The math says they were worth (market value) $821,000,000 and now worth $912,000,000 >> ONE YEAR increase was $91,000,000 in Brown family lawyers net worth!!
But they certainly deserve it?!?
2 posts point out that "Hamilton County commisioners negotiated the deal" & the "public voted for it", so it's not the Bengals fault.
Wasn't it Commissioner Bedinghaus who led the Stadium deal & convinced us we'd be a second-rate city without an NFL franchise? Guess who he works for now?
If you guessed Mike Brown, go to the head of the class. I'd love to see the secret Bengals expense sheet to see how much they paid him last year.
Can't beat the Browns on the field..might as well bash the (owner) Browns in the media. LOL
Paul and sheep, remember the riverfront slumber prior to PBS. Many others besides Mike Brown got paid by the taxpayers to build that stadium. Winning football will justify the investment, although I do agree that the lease is a bad deal for the taxpayers.
Keep the PBS name, but sell corporate naming rights within the stadium, a la Cleveland.
Book more concerts-Buffett, Chesney, Police, Springsteen, U2 , Beyonce, Hannah Montana, variety as well as community events at PBS.
How about more HS reg season games/playoffs and college events (UC- U of L or UC - WVU ) ? Bring back the Classic contest between 2 historically black colleges. I remember the excitement in Cincy that weekend . Also the juice when OSU played UC and escaped with the win en route to the national title: 65,000 fans then joined the 200,000 or so already at Oktoberfest !
After Mike Brown is long gone, the stadium and the Bengals will be important community assets.
ANON 9:02
Don't forget that there were two other commissioners who signed off on that lease. It wasn't all Bedinghaus. Although I think he is shady. However I agree with Bendinghaus, without an NFL or a MLB team this city is a second rate city.
I was always a proponent of the retractable dome/all-purpose facility myself, but I remember that CITY COUNCIL nixed that idea before it even got to be presented. Think what you could have had--a facility for political conventions, final 4 games, the Reds, the Bengals, a SuperBowl, maybe even an NBA franchise, but no---we built an already crumbling facility (with a practice field!) on prime Riverfront property that is only used for 8 games a year. Can anyone join me in saying: "waste of space".
Planning ahead is key in these situations--the city didn't do it, the county didn't do it, and what looks like a great plan now, is going to look like a white elephant down the road. This was very poor city planning brought to us courtesy of a weak mayor and a city council that has never done anything but fight with each other (it's like a small version of the UN!). As a result, they had to split the decision for this boondoggle with the county.
If you want proof that our city/county government stinks, look across the river at Newport and Covington--they get things done...you might want to ask WHY!
All the Bengals did was state their desires and the countly ponied up. Had clearer heads prevailed, you'd have something that could have made much more money for the county than PBS.
Later!--
It's amazing how people love to criticize on these blogs but are not man enough to leave their name; just hide behind anonymous. And sometimes not know all the facts. The reason there is not a dome is because at the time (and I think still) NFL league rules prohibit teams from sharing new stadiums w/ teams from other sports.
Also please remember the citizens of Hamilton Co voted for the stadiums and re-doing Ft Washington Way; not the County Commissioners nor City Council. And in full disclosure I am not related to the Brown or Bedinghaus families. Just a long time fan who is glad Sundays are not spent watching a team from some other city.
Robert Young
Milford
Yep, lets blame the Brown family for trying to make as much money as possible. While trying to put together a very good team.
Gee, that attitude is so un-American.
Paul's original point is getting lost in all the Mike Brown bashing/loving (sounds like the Dem/Rep's).
Paul has previously called the Bengals/HamCo deal: "beads for Manhattan" (guess who the indians were) & he's dead right.
Can't the Browns put aside their lawyerly instincts and "leave something on the table", instead of milking every contract nuance for every dollar they can?
Paul, I'd just like to say I appreciate a Cincinnati sports writer with the cred (cojones) to take on the "Sacred Cows".
You've earned the right/power to do so & I'm glad you're using it.
Too bad you don't do politics - you'd have a field-day with Simon(Says) Leis.
Hey Robert Young.
Explain the new Lucas Oil Stadium in Indy, Ford Field in Detroit, the Metrodome in Mpls,Edward Jones Dome in St Louis, Georgia Dome in ATL, or University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale, home of Arizona Cardinals?
Back in the day I suggested the "Carl Lindner Riverdome" as a great idea. Obviously that didn't happen, but, looking at the successes of domed stadiums in cold-weather NFL cities, perhaps it should be further explored. How much to retrofit PBS with a retractible roof ?? Super Bowl, Final 4, major concerts, rallies, even political/religious conventions would be possible in Cincinnati.
J Law
315-8395
To Mr. Young--
Dude..you are simply flat wrong about "NFL league rules prohibit teams from sharing new stadiums w/ teams from other sports."
To wit:
Heinz Field is primarily a football facility, though it has also hosted soccer games & concerts
Jacksonville Municipal Stadium is used primarily as a football facility but does host other events including monster truck shows & concerts. It is also well-known for hosting college football.
Cleveland Browns Stadium also hosted the Ohio Classic college football game in both 2004 & 2005. In September 2006 it hosted the Bowling Green Falcons - Wisconsin Badgers game. In 2007 it was the site of the first Patriot Bowl[1], a season-opening game between the Army Black Knights football team & the Akron Zips. In 2009 it will be the site of the Ohio State Buckeyes - Toledo Rockets game.
Dolphin Stadium (previously known as Joe Robbie Stadium, Pro Player Park, Pro Player Stadium[1], & Dolphins Stadium) is a football, lacrosse, soccer & baseball stadium in Miami Gardens, Florida, a suburb north of Miami. The stadium serves as host to the Miami Dolphins, the Florida Marlins, & starting in 2008, the Miami Hurricanes [1].
Gillette Stadium in the town of Foxborough approved plans for the stadium's construction on December 6, 1999, & work on the stadium began on March 24, 2000. The first official event was a New England Revolution (Pro Soccer) game on May 11, 2002.
INVESCO Field is used primarily for football games. It is the home field for Denver's NFL team, the Denver Broncos. The stadium also hosts the city's Major League Lacrosse team, the Denver Outlaws. In college football it has hosted the rivalry game between the Colorado State Rams & the Colorado Buffaloes. INVESCO Field is also used for concerts & other events. It was the former home of the city's Major League Soccer franchise, the Colorado Rapids.
M&T Bank Stadium also serves as an alternate venue for the Johns Hopkins University's men's lacrosse team, & was the site of the NCAA Men's Lacrosse Championship in 2003, 2004 & 2007. Major League Lacrosse's Baltimore Bayhawks used the stadium as their home during the 2002 season.
Basketball is also played at the RCA Dome. The first game played there was an exhibition game in 1984 between an NBA All-Star team led by home-State hero Larry Bird & the United States Olympic Men's Basketball team, coached by Bob Knight, who was at the time the coach of Indiana University. The dome also served as the site of the NBA All-Star Game in February of 1985. Since then it has hosted many NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Championship games, including four Final Fours (1991, 1997, 2000, 2006). The NCAA, whose headquarters are in Indianapolis, has committed to holding the Final Four in Indianapolis once every five years. The RCA Dome hosted its first Women's Final Four in 2005.
In addition, it has hosted the Indiana High School Athletic Association's annual boys & girls championships, & served as one of two sites for the FIBA Men's World Basketball Championship.
Reliant Stadium hosts several international friendly & club matches each year. They are generally held in the Spring & Summer before the NFL season starts. The stadium hosted CONCACAF Gold Cup matches in 2005, & in 2007. The Gold Cup matches in 2007 included Round 1 matches, & a Quarterfinal doubleheader match. The venue's attendance record was set during the 2007 CONCACAF Gold Cup Quarter finals as a crowd of 70,092 witnessed Mexico defeat Costa Rica (1 - 0) in Extra time, & Guadeloupe defeat Honduras (2 - 1). Both winning teams advanced to the Semi finals. The stadium is scheduled to host the NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Tournament several times in the future, including the 2008 South Regional Finals, the 2010 South Regional Finals, & the 2011 Final Four.
In April 2005, the Edward Jones Dome hosted the 2005 NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Tournament Final Four where the University of Louisville, the University of Illinois, Michigan State University, & the University of North Carolina faced off, with UNC winning the National Championship game against the University of Illinois. It will host the NCAA Men's Basketball St. Louis Regional for the 2007 NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Tournament & the Women's Final Four for the 2009 NCAA Women's Division I Basketball Tournament. The dome was the site of the 1996 & 1998 Big 12 football conference championship games.
Ford Field is home to the Motor City Bowl featuring a top Mid-American Conference team & a Big Ten Conference team. It has also hosted the annual Mid-American Conference Championship Game since 2004. On December 13, 2003, Ford Field hosted the largest crowd ever to attend a basketball game, as 78,129 people packed the stadium to watch University of Kentucky defeat Michigan State University, 79-74. The MHSAA Football Finals also take place on Thanksgiving weekend, drawing over 60,000 fans.
On April 1, 2007, Ford Field hosted World Wrestling Entertainment's WrestleMania 23. The event set a Ford Field attendance record of 80,103. It was the first WrestleMania held in the Detroit area since 93,173 fans set a world indoor attendance record at the Pontiac Silverdome for WrestleMania III in 1987.
The University of Detroit Mercy & Ford Field is also scheduled to host 2008 NCAA Basketball Tournament regional semifinal & final games (March 28 & 30, 2008), the 2009 Final Four (April 5 & 7, 2009), hosted by University of Detroit Mercy, & the 2010 Frozen Four (April 8 & 10, 2010).
The Georgia Dome is host to the Southeastern Conference Football Championship Game, The Chick-fil-a Bowl (formerly known as The Chick-fil-a Peach Bowl & The Peach Bowl) post-season college football games, & since 2004 the FIRST World Championships. It was also home to the NBA's Atlanta Hawks during the construction of Philips Arena from 1997 to 1999, as well as hosting basketball, team handball & gymnastics during the 1996 Summer Olympics. Since 1994. The Dome has Hosted two Super Bowls & has also been host to both the Men's & Women's NCAA Final Four Basketball National Championships & several SEC & ACC Basketball Championships. It also hosted Super Bowl XXVIII in 1994 & Super Bowl XXXIV in 2000, as well as the prestigious NCAA Final Four Men's Basketball National Championship in 2002 & 2007 along with regional semi-finals & finals in 2001 & 2006 & NCAA Women's Final Four in 2003. The Dome has been host to many WCW Monday Nitro & WWE RAW live events, including the now-infamous "Fingerpoke of Doom" in 1999 as well as the memorable championship bout between Bill Goldberg & Hulk Hogan. Since 2004, the Georgia Dome has annually hosted the FIRST Robotics Championship Event. The Sugar Bowl game was played at the Georgia Dome on January 2, 2006 which was the first time "the South's Biggest Bowl Game" was ever played outside the state of Louisiana. The Sugar Bowl finished a string of three football games in four days that started with the Chick-fil-a Peach Bowl between LSU & Miami (Florida). While playing at the Georgia Dome the Atlanta Hawks broke the NBA single-game attendance record with 62,046 fans. The Georgia Dome also hosts the Georgia High School Association football state playoff semifinals .
Temple University's Division I-A college football team also plays their home games at Lincoln Financial Field, paying the Eagles $6 million a year to do so.
The Metrodome is home to the following sports teams:
* Minnesota Vikings (NFL)
* Minnesota Twins (AL)
* Minnesota Golden Gophers football (Big Ten)
* Minnesota Golden Gophers baseball, first half of season (second half at Siebert Field) (Big Ten)
It was the home at one time for:
* Minnesota Timberwolves (NBA) (1989–1990)
* Minnesota Strikers (NASL soccer) (1984)
Qwest Field is a football stadium in Seattle, Washington. It serves as the home field for the NFL's Seattle Seahawks & men's & women's Seattle Sounders soccer teams.
Raymond James Stadium is a football & soccer stadium located in Tampa, Florida. It is home to the NFL's Tampa Bay Buccaneers as well as the NCAA's South Florida Bulls, & was formerly home to the MLS's Tampa Bay Mutiny.
University of Phoenix Stadium
Arizona Cardinals (NFL) (2006-present)
Tostitos Fiesta Bowl (BCS) (2007-present)
Super Bowl (NFL) (2008)
2007 BCS National Championship Game (NCAA) Upcoming events include Super Bowl XLII in 2008 & it will also be the site for the West Regional Finals of the 2009 NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Tournament.
moral of the story--do some research before you question the voracity of other posters to this blog!
Wow, if there isn't a bit of a debate going on here. In this post alone, the relationship between the Brown family/Bengals and Hamilton County has been compared to the United Nations and Democrats/Republicans.
I'm not sure I see much wrong with what's going on. As said, no one needs to punish or bash the Brown family for their attempt at making as much $$ as possible. In fact, I applaud their success. Suppose the business you work for or own raised its total worth by 11% in the past calendar year. And perhaps there were similar things done between your business and those that own the land on which said business lies. What would you be saying then?
There is not much difference.
Pat
Western Hills
to 1:23 AM Anonymous point taken. It is my fault for not saying pro baseball teams as far as sharing. You'll notice every stadium you mention w/ a baseball team was constructed before PBS. The NFL rules is against co-tenants w/ baseball.
And even when wrong I do not hide behind Anon.
Robert Young
Milford
Pat, how oversimplistic of you. How many other businesses out there are funded by the county taxpayers? And let's not forget the reason why: extortion, plain and simple. Brown family was simply playing on the emotions of a starved for winner community. The value of this franchise has tripled since the stadium deal to almost a billion dollars. Please tell me how ANY of that value has trickled down to the community?!?! It's time to call it out for what it is: fleecing of the city with nothing to show for it.
No value trickling down? Not sure that's true given the dollars spent around the area on gameday.
The Browns want to make money? Okay. That's fine. The anger should be about the crappy franchise we've had here for 40 years. Recent history: one playoff appearance in 17 years!!!!!!!!!!!! 40 years of football and the bengals have been in the playoffs, what, 6 times? Seven times? Paint that picture how you wish. That's an awful record. Paul Brown was a doddering old fool and his son is worse. Would we be a second rate city without the Bengals? Hell no. We've got so much going on in Cincy the Benglas would harldy be missed. For me, I'd rather go over to Nippert and watch the Bearcats. Mike Brown, F-you!!!!!!
3:38 I agree with your points but not presentation.
What if:
1) we'd woted it down & Mike had left town for... (Paducah?)
2) we'd offered a stadium and a reasonable deal to any takers in the NFL.
I believe we'd all be money ahead and proud of a competitive team.
We're stuck with what we voted (got flimflammed into). Where do we go from here???
Hey Robert Young,
J Law (aka anon 1:23) Phone # 513-315-8395
Nice try, but you make my point !
I mentioned 6 stadiums: 5 are NFL only, the 6th (Metrodome) was built in the 80s. 4 of the domes are in NFL/MLB cities. Each franchise has its own stadium/ballpark. GABP would have been built, dome or no dome !
Now is the time to undo some of the shortsightedness of the original "raw deal". Raise more revenue by scheduling a wider variety of events, retrofit PBS for year-round use, and sell naming rights to businesses (P&G Plaza, Fifth 3rd Terrace, Delta Airlines Deck, etc.)
PBS is a jewel. Hope the team lives up to its home and fans !
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