Paul Daugherty: cameron and ross

Monday, August 13, 2007

cameron and ross

One admittedly unscientific way to tell if your club's, um, engaged is to see how it reacts when one of its own gets drilled, one way or another... in the game Sunday, Mike Cameron took out David Ross at the plate. Excuse me...made a left turn into Ross' shoulder and body-blocked him into the front row... nobody says a word. Not the TV guys, not Mackanin, not a Red... it was a blatant cheap shot. Ross was out in front of the plate, not in the base path. Cameron went out of his way to level him. Arroyo should have decked Cameron next time up. Somebody should have. Maybe I missed that part. That's a little reason the Pads are playing for something, and the Reds arent.

17 Comments:

at 12:16 PM

Anonymous said...

I was at the game Sunday and everyone in our area had the same reaction. The fact they did not show a replay of it told us it must have been a pretty cheap shot by Cameron. Everyone assumed Cameron would get a pitch thrown his way but nothing happened. Noticed the same thing when Freel went down earlier this season after a collision with Hopper. No other players went to his aid as he was on the ground in pain. Don't know what that says about team chemistry.

at 2:40 PM

Anonymous said...

I was watching this on FSN--all trainers and Arroyo around Ross. Chris and Thom discussed briefly on whether Ross was blocking the base path, and the fact that the batter's bat was on the other side of the plate. Seemed to be marked up as one of those things that just happens from time to time. Arroyo did hold his glove up to shade Ross's head--that was nice of him.

Re: Arroyo not beaning Cameron the next AB; well, with the command he was demonstrating, he may well have been trying to hit him...

at 3:13 PM

Anonymous said...

The replay on television showed Ross was blocking the plate and looked like he was about to receive the ball for a play at the plate. That was a clean aggresive play by Cameron. If Ross wanted to he could have moved in front of the plate until the ball was closer to home. They teach you in Little League that if you are catching, expect contact if you are blocking the plate.

at 5:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Doc, You are half right & half wrong on this one. Ross was at least partially in the baseline. Look at the replay again & pay attention to where Ross' left foot is. In fact his whole body was set up that way. And it really wasn't a cheap shot because Cameron couldn't slide around him because Khalil Greene's bat was lying there. Ross was fair game because of where he was. I hope he isn't hurt badly, but if you hang out in the baseline without the ball, you've got to expect to be knocked on your rear from time to time. This is at least the 3rd time in the last 2 homestands he was on the 3rd base side of the plate awaiting a throw. You stand there at your own risk.

But you are right. The Reds should have dusted Cameron or Brian Giles, who killed them all weekend, their next time up. I'm not saying throw at their heads, but at least make a statement. They intentionally walked Giles twice later in the game. Why not plunk him in the leg once instead? This team has been soft for years.

John Burroughs
Hyde Park

at 9:56 PM

Anonymous said...

but of course, this team is out of it because they don't do the little things.

Pitching sucks, and the offense isn't good enough to compensate. There's your problem.

at 12:59 AM

Anonymous said...

This team is garbage. They are a bunch sissys..Sombody on the REDS should have decked that idiot for hittin Ross.

at 2:14 AM

Anonymous said...

Well with the Freel incident, I'd say I'd rather not have the players rushing around him and let the medical staff do their job. However with the Ross incident, I'm really surprised that Arroyo didn't do anything. I mean him and Ross are so tight I thought it was a sure thing that Cameron was gonna get a piece of his mind. Then again I've noticed that the team in general the pitchers, they won't protect their teammates by hitting a batter or at least making em fall down in the box to dodge a pitch. The lack of reaction is just kind of shocking. They got nothing to play for but pride right now and they aren't really playing for that it seems.

at 6:35 AM

Bomber2Musky said...

Baseball is not always an eye for an eye game. I have seen the play many times on Sports Center, as well as having seen it Sunday when it actually occurred.

Where some may have considered it cheap, it's part of the game when a catcher is waiting on a possible pending throw to the plate with a runner trying to score. Ask our man Pete Rose, who you can bet would go through any catcher or take him out if he felt there was going to be a close play.

Ross was decked pretty hard, but being a catcher, it seemed as if he understood that's what happens down there, which is why he didn't raise a philippic with the umpire, nor did his Reds. Bean-balling Cameron in response would seem a bit unwarranted.

I don't think the reason that the Yankees are in contention is because Clemens beaned Hernandez from the Blue Jays earlier this year, and I don't think clearing the dug out in response has made the Jays any better for it.

This incident says nothing about team chemistry. I rarely ever see any players from any team come to a teammate's aid when he goes down . The only time I see teams showing support in the sense of physically backing a teammate up is when benches clear.

at 8:21 AM

Anonymous said...

Doc,

Hope you enjoyed the week off.

I wasn't sure if that was a cheap shot or not. I watched the game on FSN and there was a little discussion about it, but the fellas indicated that it wasn't cheap, Ross and Cameron are old teammates, Cameron wouldn't do that...bla bla bla...Interesting that you see it so differently. It's really hard to tell from my living room, never having dealt with any of these guys the way you and others in the media have.

If you're right, this points to something I've noticed about this team for a long time. The natural choices for leadership - guys like Griffey, Dunn, Harang, Weathers...don't seem to be get-in-your-face, let's get fired up guys. That seems to me, more than anything else, to be what this team needs - a guy who would be willing to "break some eggs to make an omelet". You know?

at 8:59 AM

Anonymous said...

I agree completely! I watched Sportscenter the other night and saw highlights of Roger Clemens dot Alex Rios in retaliation. Funny how a guy who is a mercenary for the last 5 years has more respect for his team than the Reds pitchers. Especially given the fact that Ross and Arroyo are joined at the hip as a battery. This was a perfect opportunity for one of our crummy bullpen guys to stand up and put one in Cameron's back, chances are he is gonna get on base against them anyway.

at 9:00 AM

Anonymous said...

I am absolutely blown away that not a single blogger on the Enquirer's website had one congatulatory word for the Hamilton Little-Leaguers on their trip to the LLWS. What's up with that?

at 11:54 AM

Anonymous said...

I keep reading/hearing comments about the atmosphere in the clubhouse; the affect Adam Dunn's lack of hustle is having on the younger players - and now this. Yet no one (ie player, sports talk, newspaper)will come out and say what is painfully obvious to everyone watching...Does this team even care about winning, let alone each other? Feels like the inmates are running the asylum. I was truly flummoxed when I saw Ross laying there - alone. That's just cold. Is there an unwritten rule that if a teammate goes down, ie Freel, Phillips (shoulder) and Ross that in order to keep your manhood in tact you ignore him while he suffers??? This team is beyond an embarrassment - in every aspect of this game.

at 6:21 PM

Anonymous said...

Doc, I love your writing, I think you have a great way of putting things into words, but when it comes to sports, it seems like you don't have a clue. The hit wasn't dirty, I would expect to get hit like that if I was blocking the plate like that in a softball game.

at 11:48 AM

Bomber2Musky said...

I think a great point is being raised here. The fact that the Reds do not have any "in-your-face" personalities could be a large reason why the Reds have been sub-mediocre for some time now.

This problem stretches all the way from upper management to the players. You look at New York, who is more ardent than George Steinbrenner? By the way, I think ESPN's "The Bronx is Burning" captures George perfectly.

Then look at some managers around the league of successful ball clubs. Bobby Cox in Atlanta (love the record), Dusty Baker at the helm when the Giants went to the WS: all hot-headed managers with success. Heck, Chicago is home to two of the most fervid mangers in the game: Ozzie Guillen and Sweet Lou Pinella, who by the way had the Reds on top of baseball when he was tossing bases and kicking dirt in red.

Turn to the players now. What do guys like Carlos Zambrano, Manny Ramirez, Curt Schilling, A-Rod and Gary Sheffield have in common? All vocal, zealous players who speak their mind and are all parts of winning organizations.

Cincinnati just doesn't seem to have that spark, at least in a baseball sense. Besides the multitude of "Who-Deys" in the fall, it's a relatively quiet city. I had the extreme displeasure of sitting next to Cubs fan during the second game of the season where the Reds fell to the Cubs. A long story short, they basically called the GABP a mockery of what a baseball game experience should be like, and strongly advised anyone who enjoys a a great baseball game to visit Wrigley Field; if you can get a ticket.

I don't really have a solution, just something to think about.

at 1:57 PM

Anonymous said...

Agree with you 100%. But just to think that your own manager did not take up for Ross is just unreal.(read his comments). Article today on Bobby Cox about why his players perform for him year after year. Article said that players said that Cox would take up and protect them on and off the field. That he also took care of his players right or wrong. Do you think that is what Pete Reds manager did? I DON'T THINK SO. We don't need him as the manger of the Reds next year!!!!!!!!!

at 8:24 AM

Anonymous said...

Bomber:

I was at that game too. Coldest baseball game I've ever attended. We were in left field, about 5 rows up from the wall and left the game with wind-burned faces. Good times.

at 12:03 PM

G-RANT said...

you've got to wonder what's holding them back. it's not like they have anything to lose at this point.

maybe they should bring in a couple trouble-making bengals in to play a few games and crack some heads

and send a few well-behaved reds over to calm the bengals down a bit.

maybe they could average each other out.

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Monday, August 13, 2007

cameron and ross

17 Comments: