Paul Daugherty: Buzz Bissinger v. Deadspin

Thursday, May 01, 2008

Buzz Bissinger v. Deadspin

I just saw about 4 minutes of video on youtube, of the Pulitzer-winning author B. Bissinger, slamming Will Leitch of Deadspin, on B. Costas' HBO show. It's must-see for anyone who blogs.

I'm interested in your reaction. Bissinger looked and sounded arrogant, which was too bad, because he made some valid points. Being an almost charter member of BlogWorld (I started this more than two years ago) I can give you a few observations of my own:

It's a nice way to say things I can't get in the paper or on radio. For a word-churner like me, that's great. I mean, I'm probably not going to write in the paper about my love for Keystone Light. Though maybe I should.

It occasionally enlightens me to a different way of looking at an issue. It sometimes provokes thought that generates a column. Again, good.

It gives readers/listeners a chance to see a different side of me. I've had people say their opinion of me has changed for the better after having read the blog. Good again.

But here's the point Buzz was making, and it's very valid:

Under the current form, this forum is a way for gutless ax-grinders to take personal shots. Anonymity is not a good way to do business here. While a majority of the responses are thoughtful or at least genuine, many are cheap and ill-informed. I'm not saying my opinions are any more worthy than anyone else's. What I am saying is, they come with my name attached.

Time writing this stuff is almost always time well spent. You guys have found me new music, new beers, new ways of getting rid of the GD deer eating my horticulture. Time spent moderating mindless crap from Messrs. Anonymous is the other side of the deal.

Anyway, check out Bissinger. I'd be interested in your reaction.

41 Comments:

at 9:09 AM

matty buckets said...

I don't see why you take issue with anonymous opinions. It does not mean someone is "gutless" if they post here anonymously. It could mean they are too lazy to post with their name. Even if their name was attached, would you consider their opinion more valid? Would you seek to meet this person? I think not.

Also, your name is attached to your opinion because you are a blogger/sportswriter. You would have it no other way since that is your profession. The comparison is apples vs. oranges.

at 9:21 AM

Anonymous said...

Paul--
How are named, faceless, opinion wielding callers different from nameless, faceless, opinion wielding blogger/members?
The thing I took from that show was that the purists are seeing how new mediums are closing in on the way things were, and they don't like it.
I'd like to know how indebted Bissinger is to the bloggers(for the residual checks) that keep the show based on his book afloat through an aggressive internet campaign.
He sounded like the bitter ex player that can't handle the fact that, for better or worse, things are changing.

at 9:57 AM

cramer said...

Clearly, Buzz came in with an agenda to ambush Leitch. And for a guy who complained about the coarseness of the writing on blogs, boy, he sure dropped enough f-bombs. If you can't understand the difference between the editor and his commenters, you probably shouldn't be participating in the debate. The guy was like O'Reilly.

I see blogging is part of a larger fan reaction to the way sports have changed. If free agency means there's no more loyalty, then why should I care more about the home squad than my own fantasy team? If huge salaries mean these guys are in an economic exosphere, then what's the harm in seeing these guys do something that we can actually relate to, or laugh at, like Leinart and a beer bong?

GTA isn't a sign of the end times, and neither are blogs.

at 10:10 AM

Unknown said...

For what it's worth, Dustin Dow has the best run blog of those the Enquirer sponsors.

Comments require a registered name. They come up immediately. They are moderated well.

Copy Dustin.

at 10:14 AM

Anonymous said...

Paul,

I agree with you 1000% here! As much as I enjoy reading your blog, I cringe at the vents, snipes, and low-blows posted by gutless wonders who don't have the balls to put a name to a post.

I mean, what's the problem? I think it's people who post anonymously who are the same ones that whine about their life and how terrible it is, yet wouldn't know what to do if the solution was right in front of their face.

I also looks at these gutless wonders in the same light as those "fans" who attend a sporting event. The last game I ever went to was with my son around 2001 or so.

Some pitcher was on the mound for the Reds (I think it was Acevedo) and he got hammered. My son and I are both deaf, but as soon as he got yanked, we could hear the roar of the boo-birds. My son, also a pitcher for his Little League team, just looked at me as we saw Acevedo hang his head and walk off to the dugout.

I looked at Mike, shrugged, and said, "He just didn't have it tonight."

It's those same boo-birds that I lump together with the feckless, ignorant fools that post and don't have the bollocks to post their names.

Mike Walton
Chantilly, Virginia

at 10:45 AM

Anonymous said...

I must say I got a problem with your Keystone Light thing. I bought a 12 pack for my softball penance (player with most errors has to buy the following week). It sucked! Everyone hated it. Was flat and weak, but its biggest sin was that it was boring. How can you praise something like that? Biggest benefit? 12/$6.29. You should try Moerlein's OTR ale. Much better--so much so you'll keep that Keystone Light travesty on hand to give to your friends so they won't take any of your precious OTR bottles.

at 11:36 AM

Anonymous said...

Paul,

I disagree. Just because someone posts anonymously doesn't mean they are a spineless, gutless, feckless, ignorant fool. They just might actually post something meaningful. In this fast paced day and age, the few minutes or seconds it takes to register or just 'sign in' is wasted time. Why? Who cares who actually makes the point? The point of the blog is: the point is made.

And just because someone posts something with a fake name, for all you know, doesn't mean they're Earnest Hemmingway either. Exactly how does a potentailly fake moniker lend any credibility?

I've been called out a time or two on this very blog for statements I've made that people disagreed or took issue with. And vice versa. It's the nature of the beast. You need to have thicker skin, and not play down to the few that try to rope you in to a response.

You do a great job on this blog, but don't alienate the vast majority of reasonable people that post under anonymous by painting with so broad a brush.

at 11:39 AM

Anonymous said...

I don't see how anonymity has any bearing on someone having an opinion. Anyone can make up a silly name and sign up.

That's all this forum is. Someone throwing their opinion into the ring. You take that opinion based on it's merits. Either it's well thought out and has value or, if it is not, you disregard it and move on.

There are many people on talk radio and cable news shows who are not anonymous, but their opinions are certainly not reasonable. You simply turn the channel and move on. The ones that are thought provoking, you consider and decide whether to agree or disagree.

It's the old axiom....opinions are like *&%holes, everybody has one. Unfortunately, in this forum, people who shouldn't be showing them often do.

at 12:05 PM

gmirones said...

Paul:
Many people don’t have anything of value to say but they write it anyway. This is the reason for having a moderator; helps keep the riffraff off the site. Now having said that let’s proceed.
You wrote: “Under the current form, this forum is a way for gutless ax-grinders to take personal shots. Anonymity is not a good way to do business here. While a majority of the responses are thoughtful or at least genuine, many are cheap and ill-informed.”

I looked and listened to the interview you recommended.
Leitch at the age of 32 is what the future looks like and Bissinger is what the plus 50 crowd hopes it will turn out to be. No person likes to face change yet is this so much different than the sports talk radio. Just imagine WLW Sports Talk without someone monitoring the calls. Just how long do you think it would take before the FCC entered its opinion? The real problem isn’t the gutless ax-grinders but the continuing decline of an industry that was smug enough to think it was irreplaceable and now finds itself under siege by people that; cannot spell, that write with profanity, or do not have any in-depth knowledge on the subject. The blog encourages the same communication that 3 or 4 beers invite's at the corner pub, only now it is in written form.
It does not matter about names or registration it really comes down to this; there are bloggers who write blogs and then there are writers who write blogs. If you were not an experienced writer you wouldn’t be asking about our reaction to this interview, you would simply state say check out Costas.
Paul the world is changing, newsprint will officially be an artifact under glass with the opening of The Newseum in Washington, D.C.

gmirones@yahoo.com

at 12:46 PM

gmirones said...

To further the discussion my suggestion is to read Jason Whitlock at foxsports.com He addresses this same topic and has some very useful insights to those of you who are interested.

gmirones@yahoo.com

at 1:05 PM

Anonymous said...

Anyone who's ever read the comments page on Deadspin can understand what PDoc is talking about. While Buzz may have gone overboard with the criticism of Deadspin/blogs in general, there IS a point. The anonymous folks there reinforce the stereotype of bloggers being folks living in their parents' basement (or, in honor of the 25th anniversary of Lee Elia's famous rant, unemployed Cubs fans).

There is less of that here, though it is very tough to read some of the anon posts on some of these blogs. John Fay, for instance, has been pulling out his hair trying to deal with some of the double-digit IQs who lob firebombs hiding behind anonymous screen
names.

These blogs are good to read, but be sure to put on the workboots before wading through the muck of the comments page! There are some well thought out comments, but you have to cut through alot of dreck to find them.

-Bill in Loveland

at 1:25 PM

Ryan Dempsey said...

"Being an almost charter member of BlogWorld (I started this more than two years ago) I can give you a few observations of my own"

Two years. Wow. Quite the trend setter...considering that blogging started in the mid 90's...

at 1:39 PM

Anonymous said...

There is a concern, rightly expressed, that this crap will replace serious, respponsible journalism. As a working journalist in a major market, I can't tell you how many times people have been reluctant to talk because of the concern that what they say will be taken out of context in some blurb on a Web site. The irony is that the Internet, which seemingly promotes a more open exchange of opinions, is, in many cases, actually stifling the true opinions of the people that are informed and replacing them with the uninformed opinions of loudmouth jerks who have no accountability. As this medium continues to expand faster than it can be regulated this will be an ongoing problem. If we do reach the point where people turn to these sites ats a primary source of information, it will be a disaster and sources will become so guarded, we will never get the real picture.

at 3:35 PM

Anonymous said...

Yo, Paul....

Your workload just got a little heavier. Nothing to do with this particular blog, but another Bengal is in trouble. Ahmad Brooks just decked a woman:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080501/SPT02/305010073/1066/SPT

The circus is in town and the fun never starts. We'll be expecting your commentary.

at 4:25 PM

Unknown said...

Keep offering up your newspaper for free online and wonder why the newspaper business is going under.

at 4:46 PM

Anonymous said...

The Costas segment did a poor job of separating the blog posts from the comments to the posts. Many reputable newspaper and mainstream sports media websites have comments sections (which I think should be viewed as a forum for readers' opinions/reactions) that can get very vulgar.

Also no one on the segment mentioned that ESPN, PTI etc covered the Leinart photo story. Overall it seems like they are trying to put the whole thing on blogs and Leitch in particular.

at 4:52 PM

Another losing season said...

Well, that's another wasted four minutes of my life I can't get back.

Blogs are now to blame for the complete dumbing down of society? Seriously? I thought it was the schools, the lack of funding, the teachers, the no child left behind act, the lower standards, the record dropout rate, the prolific birthrate in the poverty stricken communities with no apparent family structure? And all along it was the blogs. I must admit, I did not see that one.

If Bissinger was not so illogical and arrogant, he could almost be humorous and taken with a grain of salt. Perhaps journalists are a little paranoid about their perceived competition coming from these blogs. Afterall, some posts are excellent and certainly more compelling than the daily sports rag drivel.

Now I ask you, does not knowing my name have an impact on your life or did I just make you dumber?

at 5:46 PM

Cheviot Sports Authority said...

LMAO, Blogging is probably the least important activity on earth, other than worrying about global warming. Fun to stir the pot, though.
ST CSA

at 8:52 PM

oldtimer said...

The difference between being a belligerent loud jerk on the internet in a blog as opposed to down at the corner bar is that at the bar you are visible, available, and capable of being thrown at at best and slugged for being an ahole at worst. Big big difference.

The internet is cyberspace. So is letter writing, morse code, and tv/radio talk shows. The problem is that there has not yet evolved an easy technique to slice and dice the riff raff, largely due to the fact the internet is a technology in its infancy. Legitimate filtering will evolve and come to fruition, similar to the 7 second delay on radio and tv.

In the meantime it's still the wild west, Doc, so strap on your six shooter and keep blasting away at those snipers. Sooner or later the law will arrive to take control of Dodge em City.

at 9:19 PM

Anonymous said...

I don't really like the anonymity either. But I think a lot of these bloggers have good reason to be.

If you read Deadspin, you know that a few weeks ago a contributer (an actual weekend editor, not just a commentator) revealed his identity.

And was promptly fired by the Washington Post.

at 9:22 PM

Anonymous said...

Simple solution:
Don't want to create & use an ID >> just post your name at the bottom of post (it's all the same folks).

JackS

at 10:40 PM

JerBear said...

The one Sports Blog I like reading at times is The Big Lead. It has a nice mix of sports/entertainment/media coverage. I think the setup and content is usually a lot better than Deadspin. I don't quite get how Deadspin got so big. But I guess they were kind of the trailblazers for sports blogs.

But even the Big Lead has its problems. They sell the site with sex a pretty fair amount. Sometimes it's tame how they use women/sex to draw in guys. But then sometimes it can be a little vulgar.

At the same time though, I think Sports Illustrated.com (cnnsi.com, si.com) uses women/sex as much as any blog.

My brother said he can't go to SI.com at work anymore because of the pictures sometimes on the front page of women in bikinis/etc.

But I agree with others on here...a lot of the most vulgar and terrible stuff you read is from the commentors. Some of those people are out of control and it's not really regulated.

In conclusion...this Bissinger guy probably had some valid points, but he hurt himself more than he hurt the blogging world. From the short clips I watched, he came off as an angry and somewhat arrogant guy.

at 10:52 PM

Anonymous said...

Doc - Good choice for a topic.

First of all, Buzz Bissinger thoroughly embarrassed himself last night, coming off like a complete asshat. He appeared to be the irresponsible journalist, not Leitch.

Secondly, and more importantly, the wrong questions/issues were being discussed. You can't categorize all blogs together like they're one monolithic hateful entity. There are good blogs and bad blogs. Just like there are good tv shows and bad ones, good newspapers and bad ones. You get my drift. Why Costas, who is normally very astute, could not winnow the discussion down to a more relevant point was disappointing.

Nonetheless, a lot of the sports blogs I read provide something that traditional journalism does not. Hilarity. Leitch touched on that last night when being quizzed about the Leinart photos. No matter what else the photos do, they crack people up. And what's wrong with some humor in the sports world?

When I want a score, I log on to Yahoo Sports. Then I go to Deadspin for some up to the minute reporting and humor. When I have time the next day, I read the New York Times for a recap. What is wrong with that? Buzz needs to get over himself and his obsession with age. I'm over 50 and I get a great deal of valuable sports info - and political and economic info as well - from blogs. He could too if he ever took the stick out of his ass.

at 6:44 AM

Paul Daugherty said...

1052... agreed. I spent (wasted) 30 minutes the other day listening to Earl Weaver (former Orioles skip) air out questioners to his pre-game show, in a segment that never aired. It was hilarious. But humor that's mean-spirited, cynical and smug/all-knowing isnt funny, especially if it's at someone's expense. Too often on blogs, whether it's by posters or responders, that's the case.

at 8:09 AM

Another losing season said...

I agree with the 5:46 post.

Blogging just doesn't register anywhere on the chart of socially consequential activities. Furthermore, anyone who looks at blogs to further their education and intellect most likely doesn't have much to begin with anyway.

Personally, who posted what could not be less important. You can surmise within the first few words of a posting if it is worth continuing and if it's not, you stop reading it. I have better things to do then stew about wondering who might the author's be behind all the uncongenial cyberspace posts.

at 8:41 AM

Anonymous said...

Paul,

I just really liked it when 1052 said "asshat". That is fantastic.

Anyways, I dont know where i would fall in this catagory. I know that i try to provide a bit of humor and awarness of carson palmers MVP campaign (and bad spelling). I admitt to getting far to carried away on Marks (Bengals) blog. If the poor guy knew who i was he would punch me in the dome.

While i do agree with what you said. i will say that just like your artical about GTA (which is sweet as hell by the way) blogs are a way for people to take out there frustration at times. Anon provides consiquence free environment where people say what ever they want and nobody is hurt. If someone does take offense they shouldnt be blogging (or walk outside the door because it is much tougher outside the computer). So if anyone ever feels hurt by what anon has said to them, put down the Bud Light, go buy yourself a beer, a steak, and a box of tissues, cry for a little bit, regain your man hood, drink the beer, eat the steak (rare), turn on the reds game, scratch yourself, fart, say a few curse words at the umpire, shout "bulk" after every pitch by the apposing team, turn off the game swearing Gods name, drink the other 11 beers, run down the street sreaming at cars (with only socks on), come back, cut your grass (in the dark), go to sleep, wake up, go to work, get on the computer, think of something clever for at least 20 minutes, crack your nuckles, take a deep breath, and tell the other anon why his piont about chad johnson makes him such an inept asshat!

attacking a person who you know but they dont know you is kinda cheap though.

Carson Palmer will be MVP (just bloggin)

Anon from Mike

at 9:17 AM

Another losing season said...

8:41 AM...case in point.

at 9:45 AM

ChicagoRed said...

Doc --

Surprised more distinction wasn't made between free-standing blogs like Deadspin, i.e., not connected to anything else such as a newspaper or magazine site, and blogs of writers at the Enquirer and many other papers.

Obviously, the latter are conducted with a greater sense of journalistic integrity, while giving readers more access and flavor than just official newspaper articles.

But one area I agree with Leitch, and Bill Simmons of ESPN has made this point a cornerstone of his existence -- is that they proudly say "we're not in the locker room." Beat writers and columnists must contend with the issue of their relationships with players...write too harshly, and maybe the player doesn't talk. The bloggers bypass that. Doesn't make them more credible than traditional sports writers, but...it is an additional notch on their cap of independence.

at 9:50 AM

matty buckets said...

Given that Paul thinks anonymous opinions are "gutless", are anonymous callers into his radio show also gutless?

at 9:52 AM

Anonymous said...

There's no reason why good, well-sourced journalism can't happen on the internet (blogs) as well as print or TV.

I'm a graphic designer. Back in the day, it took 4 years of training just to learn how to create artwork for printing. Then desktop publishing came around and any kid with a macintosh could be a "graphic designer". This ticked off all the older designers, who worked for years to get to the point they go to.

The point I'm making is, I think Bissinger's gripe has more to do with the bar of access being completely removed than it is about the content being lowsy. There have always been lowsy newspapers with lowsy, unprincipled writers.

Look at it this way, a writer used to have to "pay his dues", maybe going to a mediocre paper in a small town, writing copy for classified ads and working his way up through the system before he/she EVER got a chance to have something real published.

Guys like Bissinger see the fact that people like Leitch can surf over to blogger.com, start a site, and boom, get published (albeit, electronically). And if they're really good, and have good sources and contacts, give Bissinger an actual run for his money.

Like it or not, there are people all over the internet offering commentary on sports, just like you do, Paul. Some are pretty good, most aren't as good as you are. But they're there. That's got to be an awfully frustrating thing for someone who has worked his/her ass off to get to where they are.

But guess what? Change isn't really fair, but it's inevitable. You adapt, or become irrelevant.

at 12:23 PM

Anonymous said...

Your reasoning is flawed. Nearly 95% of the posts on your blog are "anonymous," meaning made by people who cannot be held accountable for their statements (at least, without a subpoena).

There are many valid reasons for remaining anonymous, without waiving the right to participate in a public discussion. In fact, it likely allows for more candor in comments and opinions, because there is no fear of reprisal (real or imagined).

at 1:01 PM

Paul Daugherty said...

Hey, Red... I'd disagree that not "showing up'' should be seen as a badge of honor. Those who don't show up -- and there are some in my business, Mariotti being the king -- have exactly zero perspective in what they criticize, and the same amout of cred in the locker room. There's something very valuable in being (1) accountable to those you criticize and (2) getting their side of an issue. Without it, your mind is rarely open and what you write is invariably skewed. I'm guessing if someone wrote something about you that you saw as unfair or inaccurate, you'd have less respect for him if you'd never even met him.

at 2:44 PM

Cheviot Sports Authority said...

PS: I have no idea who or what a Bissinger and Deadspin are and couldn't care less.
St CSA

at 5:52 PM

ChicagoRed said...

Doc --

Thanks for the reply, your point is well taken. What I meant was simply there's value in both approaches....

at 6:59 PM

Unknown said...

Paul, I agree with you about being accountable. However, even if a blogger wanted to show his face in the clubhouse, he can't because no organization will give him credentials to get in there. So the problem becomes circular--without access, a blogger can't be accountable and credible. Without being credible, a blogger can't get access.

Also, there I think it is a fundamental mistake to compare Deadspin and Leitch to journalists. They are more facilitators of discussion among fans, and they write what fans talk about. As Leitch said, blogs are a meritocracy. It's very easy to not read a blog, so people like me must be reading Deadspin for a reason. As I learned in J-School, sports aren't life and death--they are fun. People seem to forget that.

at 7:59 PM

Anonymous said...

Paul, not for posting >> I commend you for posting CSA's junk. I simply wouldn't be able to do it.
JackS

at 7:37 AM

Paul Daugherty said...

Jeff, FWIW: C.T. Rosecrans is a full-time blogger...he has a Reds credential...

and FWIW II... I inadvertently deleted a response from St. CSA, which allowed that my problem is, I take myself too seriously.

In fact, my problem is, I take St. CSA too seriously.

at 8:26 AM

'WLMNMW' Prez said...

Paul,

As you can see, I have a blogger ID and use it. Yet I have no problem with people being allowed to post anonymously.

I've even have on occasion been the target of some of the anonymous posters with some cutting remarks. Those are the ones with nothing between their legs and they know who they are.

I do like the way that Dustin's blog allows instant posting, although anonymous posting doesn't occur there.

Just some thoughts to ponder...

Sincerely,

President of the 'We Love Mick No Matter What' Fan Club

at 9:15 AM

Cheviot Sports Authority said...

Now, you are catching on Paul. What I post is usually 100% right on the money but it is usually nothing to take too seriously and by posting it on a blog, it certainly is not going to change the world and neither are your posts (opinions).
St CSA

at 9:19 AM

Cheviot Sports Authority said...

By the way Paul, I take as much, if not more abuse from "anonymous" posters as you do. I love it, it shows their ignorance.
St CSA

at 2:06 AM

Anonymous said...

I thought Bissinger was spot on in his comments on the Costas show. He certainly did not need to be so strident. I think his frustrations concern what he sees as the death of the craft of writing. Bissinger is simply a great reporter whose talents transcend sports and include such arcane things as Philadelphia politics. He also looked tired.

Chip Lapp
Kenwood OH

Previous Posts

Thursday, May 01, 2008

Buzz Bissinger v. Deadspin

41 Comments: