Paul Daugherty: Reassessing 1 and 3

Wednesday, October 03, 2007

Reassessing 1 and 3

After a few days of talk, talk, talk, I'm going back to what I said about the Bengals before the season started, after they lost K.Irons: They didn't upgrade the talent from a year ago, and they've been hammered by injury and suspension. All the stuff about selfishness, immaturity etc. -- fueled by me and Marvin and media hacks coast to coast -- is great for discussion. It might actually be true. It's not really the point.

When you're playing pass defense with 2 green guys like J. Joseph and L. Hall, how do you expect to do against Hasselbeck and Brady? When you're trying to stop the run w/a safety and a down lineman playing LB, why should you expect to contain even Sammy Morris?

When your offense is minus C. Perry, C. Henry, R. Braham, E. Steinbach, K. Irons etc. -- and half the players you do have are one false step from IR -- why would you expect it to perform the way it did 2 years ago, or even last year? The Bengals offense is living on rep. It's too dependent on C. Palmer's right arm, and the ability of TJ and Chad to shake double teams.

Could the Bengals grow up a little? Sure. Yeah. I spoze. Could they play more as a team, if only so they don't look foolish on national TV? Yup.

But the real problem is talent. They don't have enough. They've taken the momentum of '05 and flushed it. I still see 9-7, given the schedule and the chance that some important players will heal enough to play. But the promise of '05 needed to be built upon. It hasnt been.

That's Topic A tonight on SportsTalk on 700 WLW... as well as remaking the Reds and the task UC faces in leaping to the football big time... and really, doesnt the city have better things to do than enact laws against kids playing on the street? check it out 6-9 tonight...

31 Comments:

at 8:20 AM

LBCB said...

I am going to keep saying it everytime I get a chance. The Bengals have no heart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Way to go Mike you are a horable owner and do not care about this city. If you are going to go 8-8 every year or 9-7 and think that is exceptable then...then...I guess i will continue to watch the games and get my heart stomped on...I need a hobbie.

at 8:23 AM

Anonymous said...

Yes!!
After listening to all this talk about Chad and some player named "selfish", finally a rational voice .

Marvin came in here and did a very nice upgrade and renewal of the Bengals, and then they snuck up on a lot of teams. But he has shown himself not very good at fixing problems when they appear.

The Bengals inability to stop the run showed up two years ago and still persists. I realize the linebacker corps is now decimated, but even in the preseason with the planned-for LB's, the defense was porous.

A good CEO must not only lead, but also fix. The Bengals' manager has not shown that ability.

at 8:37 AM

Anonymous said...

The Bengals historically have only won and made the playoffs when the coach was a disciplinarian throughout the year. When this same coach got soft on the team the next year, the Bengals faulter.

The Bengals need discipline. Marvin Lewis has gone soft. It's time for Bill Cowher NOW! He won't take any crap from Chad. Winning football has always been a team sport.

at 8:43 AM

Anonymous said...

Amazing, UC continues to be the only feel good story Cincinnati sports has.

at 10:02 AM

Anonymous said...

Doc, you are dead on. A little disengenuous becuse media guys like you need the things you deem (correctly ) less important for you to have a stage. But dead on nvertheless. This really does come down to talent on the field on that specific day of the game. Its no different than people focusing on the less important trivial issues of a couple of Reds position players when the real reason the Reds could not compete was that their pitching couldn't get enough people out. Sorry to jump from one sport to the other. But it is a consistent pattern with local fans and media.

at 10:06 AM

Anonymous said...

Excuses are great! We all have them and they allow us to shun responsibility.Here is the bottom line with the Bengals. Every team in the NFL goes through injuries. Yes, the Bengals seem to lead the league in this category anyway! But the difference between the Bengals and Great teams lies not so much with the physical aspects of the game, but the mental! I'm talking about Attitude! A Belief that you can overcome! A Trust in your fellow teamate that should I fall short, I know you got my back. There is no discipline! These issues fall squarely on the shoulders of Marvin Lewis and his entire coaching staff. So simple to fix and yet no one seems to have a clue! On-field problems became off-field problems became on-field problems again! Oh what a tangled web we weave...

at 11:04 AM

Anonymous said...

You are "dead on" concerning the talent remarks. Everybody thought after 2005 the Bengals would challenge for the title every year. But injuries, free agency, suspensions, and mediocre drafts have left a noticable void on this team. They simply don't have enough good players to get it done. You can't play at the high school level with 2 healthy linebackers, let alone the NFL.
On any team other than the Bengals this would be a "watershed" year for the head coach. Not in Cincy. The stadium is sold out every game, fan interest is back, and they are on prime time TV. Unless this bunch goes back to the Coslet / LeBeau era in terms of record and attendance, Marvin is here as long as he wants. It's all about Mike Brown and family making money. Very simple.

at 11:36 AM

Anonymous said...

Dead on. Injury and suspension excuses aside (we've been hearing those for 2-3 years now) the Bengals' simply have not done enough in the off-season to improve their team and acquire good depth.

Re-signing Willie was a mistake, and possibly Levi as well, had they known he basically has a chronic knee injury and is always hurt. Right now he's "earning back" his $40 million starting position.

Franchising an overrated player like Justin Smith was another mistake. Replace him. You've had 5 drafts to do it Marv.

Know when to let guys go on the decline when they get too expensive, and be more proactive about filling needs in the draft. Quit drafting Rb's in the 2nd round and start drafting tackles, centers and guards to protect your franchise money makers on day one.

Sign an expensive FA or two like every other team does on defense.

Mike Brown is the one who needs to grow up and get into the era of modern football still. Hiring a coach from outside the family is not nearly enough.

It's really the same old thing in Bengal land ultimately, they just have a top 3 QB now. There's no excuse not to be a consistent winning team at this point.

at 11:44 AM

Anonymous said...

Good post. I agree 100% - I think everyone is going overboard with the selfish stuff. Cincy sports fans are so quick to to go over-board. Its good to see someone take a step back and look at the situation rationally. I also appreciate that you still think 9-7 is a possibility (which I think is probably correct given their schedule and guys coming back from injury / suspension). Its not all doom and gloom - but there should be some discussion as to why we've taken a step back from 05. Id look to our spending. There are some amazing stats out there as to the disparity in our spending. We have the highest payroll in the league for offense and (obviously one of the lowest for our defense). We are 29th in the league in spending on LBs. Can't pay everyone. We put a lot of eggs in the offense basket (which seemed like a good idea given our personel)... not sure if it is paying off yet. Gives a different perspective everytime when we punt on 4th and 1 from midfield. Maybe we need to put the outcome of the game in the hands of our high priced offense and not put in on the shoulders of the bargain basement defense and special teams. Highest paid offense in the league needs to be allowed to do more than manage field position.

at 12:09 PM

Anonymous said...

The most accurate thing I have read on the Bengals all year.
The other things are distractions and exacerbate the problems, but stocking the team with waiver wire pickups no one else wants is the reason this team is in this mess, and especially why our special teams are suffering.
Brian Simmons, Takeo Spikes would look great at LB right now, but no, we've got Schlegal, Marshall, Jones and a seventh-round safety to fill the gap.
Blame the players all you want, but management and coaching picks those players.
You reap what you sow.

at 12:13 PM

Anonymous said...

This all started last year when we decided to let Steinback go in favor of Willie and Levi, 2 players who can't stay on the field, and then named Justin Smith as our franchise player. Are you kidding me? 8.6 million for a "pass rush specialist" who can't sack the QB? Oh, and let's not foeget that we thought this team was soooo good that we didn't need to persue any of those top notch free agents like Adelius Thomas. He coulsn't have helped this team. As long as Mikeyboy Brown remains in charge it will remain BUSINESS AS USUAL here in Cincinnati.

at 12:13 PM

Anonymous said...

After Monday evening's pitiful performance the Bengals are in the midst of a perfect storm, on the brink of disaster. Their ship has been pounded with injuries, questionable off-field conduct, inept management and an obvious lack of discipline for over two years and now and the hull is one loss away from cracking wide open. The profanity-laced tirade and subsequent post-game press conference from Head Coach Marvin Lewis was a welcome departure from the grins and giggles we have become accustomed to each week, but it may be too little too late to save this team.

The bye-week has come at a most opportune time. The Bengals (players, coaches and management) can either look at themselves in the mirror, recognize their shortcomings, work hard, fix the problems and play as a team the next time out or slough off Lewis’ rant, take a vacation, collect their paychecks and show up for the game in Kansas City, do a touchdown dance and lose. Sometimes I think the fans care more about the success of this team than do many of the players. Whatever happened to personal pride and the satisfaction you receive as the result of a job well-done? I'm beginning to think these feelings don't exist in the hearts of many of the "professional athletes" the Brown family has assembled to enrage and disappoint us on what now seems to be a weekly basis, plodding to a record of 8-8 or worse. In a league where the model is now one of mediocrity a .500 record might get you into the playoffs but doesn't win championships.

Paraphrasing from Bengals' quarterback Carson Palmer’s post-game press conference Monday evening, he stated, "There isn't a game on our schedule the rest of the way that we are not capable of winning." I wholeheartedly agree with him and still believe this team can get healthy, adjust their attitudes and be quite successful this season. On the other hand I think there is just as much of a chance that they will phone in this season some time during another sub-par performance at Kansas City as Larry Johnson racks up yardage surging through missed tackles. Then we will be looking at a 4-12 season as the memories of former head coaches Dave Shula, Bruce Coslet and Dick LeBeau come rushing back with the icy cold waters as they spill into the belly of the Bengals' sinking ship.

at 1:20 PM

Anonymous said...

First off, I've gotta say that I admire Daughtery for calling out Marvin on his arrogant attitude toward the press. Telling a guy who covers football that his way of looking at things is "elementary" while smirking during a press conference is smug and asinine. When Paul pinpoints that this Bengals team does not have the personnel he's right, but I think there's a bigger elephant in the room. During his tirade Marvin told his team "You don't call the offense, you don't call the plays. You just play. Nowhere in the NFL do guys act like this." To me, this sounds very similar to the way Marvin talks to the press as if they don't have the right or the capacity to question his judgement. And why are players questioning Bratkowski/Bresnahan and ultimately Marvin? Because their schemes aren't innovative or effective. When TJ approached Marvin in the 3rd quarter of the Patriots game, I'd be willing to bet he was pointing out that Brat's play calling sucks monkey. When they mike Justin Smith and he says "Our plans never work" he's not just venting frustration during an embarassing performance in front of the home crowd, he's 100% correct. Bratkowski came from the Seahawks, that offensive juggernaut that was 9-7 in 1999 before being one and done in the playoffs. Chuck B. engineered a defensive turd in the Super Bowl, 48 points and five turnovers against Brad Johnson and the Bucs. Huh? I still vividly remember the first five or so plays that Sam Wyche called against the Broncos in his 1984 coaching debut - all passes. It set the tone for how bold and innovative he was going to be. Marvin's sense or urgency has been replaced by insurgency - and rightfully so. He doesn't coach to the team's strong suit (our offense), consistently mismanages the clock (someone please buy him a Madden game) and now he maddeningly takes zero blame for a team he has drafted and built. Selfishness - sure it's an issue, but the real one is that this fish is rotting from the head down. Our coaching is severely lacking. Marvin is overmatched and so are his lieutenants on both sides of the ball. There is mutiny on this team because talented players have the cojones to step forward and call our schemes the crap they are. They are vanilla, unimaginative and predictable. Until someone holds Marvin accountable wins and losses don't matter - this team is a rudderless, sackless mess.

at 1:31 PM

Unknown said...

Butterball -- now you are talking sense. Fix the problems ... and no it is not Chad or Marvin; it is your defense; rancid O-line and hurt running back.

at 3:46 PM

Anonymous said...

First off, I've gotta say that I admire Daughtery for calling out Marvin on his arrogant attitude toward the press. Telling a guy who covers football that his way of looking at things is "elementary" while smirking during a press conference is smug and asinine.

When Paul pinpoints that this Bengals team does not have the personnel he's right, but I think there's a bigger elephant in the room. During his recent tirade Marvin told his team "You don't call the offense, you don't call the plays. You just play. Nowhere in the NFL do guys act like this." To me, this smacks of the belittling way Marvin talks to the press as if they don't have the right or the capacity to question his supreme judgment.

And why are players questioning Bratkowski/Bresnahan and ultimately Marvin? Because their schemes aren't innovative or effective. When TJ approached Marvin in the 3rd quarter of the Patriots game, I'd be willing to bet he was pointing out that Brat's play calling sucks monkey. When they mike Justin Smith and he says "Our plans never work" he's not just venting frustration during an embarrassing performance in front of the home crowd. He's 100% correct about our listless, unsurprising schemes.

Bratkowski came from the Seahawks, that offensive juggernaut that was 9-7 in 1999 before being one and done in the playoffs. Chuck B. engineered a defensive turd in the Super Bowl as coordinator for the Raiders. 48 points and five turnovers against Brad Johnson and the Bucs. Huh?

I still vividly remember the first five or so plays that Sam Wyche called against the Broncos in his 1984 coaching debut - all passes. It set the tone for how bold and innovative he was going to be. Marvin's sense of urgency has been replaced by insurgency - and rightfully so. He doesn't coach to the team's strong suit (our offense), consistently mismanages the clock (someone please buy him a Madden game) and now he maddeningly takes zero blame for a team he has drafted and built.

Selfishness - sure it's an issue, but the real one is that this fish is rotting from the head down. Our coaching is what is severely lacking. Marvin is overmatched and so are his lieutenants on both sides of the ball. There is mutiny on this team because talented players have the cojones to step forward and call our schemes the crap they are. Vanilla, unimaginative and predictable. Until someone holds Marvin accountable wins and losses don't matter - this team is a rudderless, sackless mess.

at 5:37 PM

Anonymous said...

Paul -- you are RIGHT ON TARGET!
I just posted this same thought on the Bengals blog.
Why all the spewing from Bengal "fans"? I understand the frustration with wanting a winner. We all want one.
But, this team has basically been a .500 team for 4 years. Since last year, has the offense or defense been improved? NO.
Chad's antics, Marvin's preaching, and all the rest are interesting, but this team doesn't have the overall talent to be a contender.
Why are people surprised?

at 6:31 PM

Anonymous said...

I hate to repeat but face it you'all >> Mike Brown has NO REASON to change anything.
We (Ham Co suckers) "gave" him a stadium >> let him write his own contract >> & now pay him (the Family) to "manage" the stadium for us.
I'm glad we have an NFL team but would sure have preferred a good one. Sure that Mikey would prefer a good one too, but not if it costs him any more money.

Go Bearcats!

PS - 8:20 called Mike a "horable" owner > is that a cross between a horrible & whoreable owner?

at 7:17 PM

Anonymous said...

Where was Chad Johnson on the opening Monday Night football game
with the "Bengals Superbowl Winners 20??"???
Instead it was about his own personal HOF honors. Which I find
hard to digest. Fast, yes. Can
catch a ball in the open field, yes. Anyone else notice his alligator arms with the game on the
line and a big play to be made?
Yes nice guy and could be HOF, but
NO WAY right now. He needs to
focus on being a good receiver.

at 9:28 PM

Anonymous said...

At least we have a real football team 1.5 hours north to root for!

Go Buckeyes!

at 11:18 PM

Anonymous said...

You understand football much more than you do baseball, that much is obvious.

at 11:22 PM

Prince said...

Doc, mark my words. Turn on your printer and print out this post:

The Bengals will make the playoffs this year. They were faced with an extremely difficult stretch to begin the season and have gotten off to what should have been an expected slow start. Think about it: If the Bengals started with the same schedule as the Steelers, we would be talking about the playoffs right now instead of panicking. Don't let the order of the games fool you; the Bengals are GOOD team.

at 1:02 AM

Anonymous said...

When your players are questioning the play calling, when the team is not executing, when you beat yourself with with stupid mental mistakes and poor game/clock management, who's responsibility is it? Is everyone wrong except Marvin Lewis? Folks who don't know what they're doing never like to be challenged.

at 9:12 AM

Anonymous said...

9:28, you have a real football team closer than that. Take a look in Clifton.

at 10:17 AM

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah, the Buckeyes are good, until the SEC comes a calling.

Go Gators!!!

OSU = Runner Up U.

at 11:28 AM

Anonymous said...

Better than playing in a bowl game in Canada!

at 11:47 AM

Anonymous said...

Hey, PD, how dare you claim that insignificant objective criteria like "talent" outweighs all the cool talk show stuff such as psychological analyses, locker room oratory, and end zone selfishness.

It's unheard of. You give me a selfless Archie Griffin any day over a bruising John Brockington, and I'll make it all the way to.....

(Anybody got a light and a compass?)

at 9:46 AM

Anonymous said...

Chris Perry? Perhaps I've been in a cave since he was drafted. Please explain to me what this guy has done other than prove he's either 1. a very poor draft pick or 2. he's a talented back who has been wasted by the Bengals "organization". He's done nothing if we look at the stats.

at 1:06 PM

Anonymous said...

For Chad, being the center of attention - for good or bad - is better than being ignored. So, if you're going to praise Chad as "funny" when they win, don't criticize him for immaturity when they don't. As for Marvin, he's less interested in his player's behavior than their play. If not, he'd put a lid on all the antics, on field and off.

at 10:37 PM

Anonymous said...

Marvin can't "put a lid" on Chad and they both know know it!
Chad makes 3,4 or 8 times Marvins paycheck.
If the Brown dufoos? gave Marvin the power to hire/fire (a la Belichick), we would have a much better team.

I'd sure take Marvin's paycheck but wouldn't want to be in his no-win situation.

The Brown family is getting rich(er) & we're getting screwed.

Go Bearcats tomorrow.

at 8:02 AM

Anonymous said...

Paul references the 2005 season that was going to be the launching pad for great things for years. Fans continue to look at that season as some sort of benchmark because the team made the playoffs after a decade and a half drought.

But what fans continue to overlook is that the 2005 team was extremely opportunistic and relied on a ridiculous amount of turnovers, especially from NFC North quarterbacks having terrible games. Did anyone actually think the Bengals defense would produce the same number of turnovers the next season?

I think the 2005 team was more like the 8-8 teams of the past three other seasons and fooled the fans into delusions of grandeur. I think its feasible the team fooled itself and kept around players like Tory James and Deltha O'Neal who were on the receiving end of many of the poorly thrown passes of guys like Kyle Orton and Joey Harrington.

Look at the Bengals one win this season, a ridiculous amount of turnovers came their way while during their three losses, their defense was required to stop the other team physically and couldn't get the job done. Realistically, the Bengals should be 0-4 if not for Steve McNair's generosity and Brian Billick's bone headed play calling.

Educated guess says that Kansas City will feature a heavy dose of Larry Johnson and few passes from Damon Huard on 10/14.

at 1:58 PM

Unknown said...

Will Marvin Lewis be succesful in convincing the ownership to hire a GM. It is almost as bad as the Redskins trying to have Joe Fibbs be coach, GM and President.

How can you expect to have talent if you don't have a first rate GM and pro scouts to sniff it out?

Previous Posts

Wednesday, October 03, 2007

Reassessing 1 and 3

31 Comments: