cheech, chong and marvin
The bigger issue with this latest self-righteous uproar over another Bengal bust is this: After four years, Marvin Lewis has failed to create a winning culture inside the home locker room. The best coaches find good players who are also solid people, and let them police the locker room. That's what Belichick has done in New England. It's what the Steelers have done, what Tony Dungy, by force of his quiet, calm decency, has done in Indy. It's missing here. Winning is not about having the best players... the Patriots proved that this year. It's about having good players who understand what it takes to win, and behave accordingly. The Bengals don't have that. They're not even close. I don't blame Lewis for offseason problems. But if he doesnt get minds right, this collection of playoff-quality talent will always underachieve. And that's on him.
posted by Paul Daugherty at 9:44 AM
20 Comments:
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Paul Daugherty said...
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Post a Comment*Paul,
I think you're off base here.
And FWIW, I'm not a "captious critic": your column is one of my favorite features of the paper.
NO. you are right on base here. The locker room seems divided between thoes willing to work hard and follow it up with their actions off the field and thoes that pay lip service to all the hard work by pursing behavior that ultimately gets them into trouble with the law. I'm no angel and at that age I was immature and felt like I could get away with many of the same behaviors that these young men are involved in. Only when I realized I was hurting myself in the long run did I quit being such a fool. What the team needs right now are leaders in the locker room that are willing to confront these young men and let them know that this is unacceptable - and I don't mean coaches - team leaders who tell not only the young players but any player it's time to grow up - life isn't just about your pursuit of pleasure(s).
" don't blame Lewis for offseason problems."
To borrow an analogy from you, would it be the Sports Editors fault if one of his employees broke the law? Probably not.
What about if he/she hired a lot of writers who were well-qualified but able to be had at a lower price because of their character issues?
What if a station manager hired all Howard Stern-style shock-jocks? Would he have some responsibility if their on-air stunts went too far?
Marvin Lewis came to a team that was sorely lacking in talent. To compensate he tried a specific tactic: He drafted players like Odell and Henry who had the talent of a higher round pick but could be had at a lower round. This was a conscious decision and perhaps a necessary one. It does not give Marv total deniability for their actions and the environment they might create.
O'Neal, for example, had some issues in Denver (we don't know their nature).
Each team will have an Eric Steinbach or two(Joseph might even fit thiscategory as well), but it doesn't need to have Thurman's, Henry's, Nicholson's, Rucker's, Askew's, etc.
My 2 cents.
You're right on, Paul. Good job.
Make the offenders wear pink jerseys next season in practice. JJ could wear #9. Deltha, #8. Chris Henry could wear an elipses.
i take it that Pual didnt read the comments of Carson palmer? if you read the comments of Palmer, he stats that 95% of the players in the locker room know what it takes to get to where they want to go. But apparently Paul doesnt what to use the words of Palmer and make up his own story of the Bengals locker room. lt me ask the question that needs to be asked. Do you believe in the words of Carson palmer and Marvin lewis? Or do you believe in the cynical and negative nature of the media who hates the fact that they dont have the 'power" and "influence" over Marvin Lewis that they had over Bruce Coslet and Dick lebeau? you see folks, this is all about POWER. Marvin Lewis has the POWER and the media hacks in this town dont. thats why guys like Paul can write an article stating marvin lewis should be "kind to the media" because many in the media believe they are the arbitraitors of truth and the people (who actually play and coach the game) dont know what they are talking about. Thank GOD Marvin Lewis has decided to not play the role of the media's "huckleberry" and has decided to do things his way. (not the conservitive media way). Look at the REDS as example #1 of what i am talking about. Marvin Lewis wont allow Cincinnati politics to get in the way of HIS TEAM. Lets hope Marvin Lewis will be the 3rd Black coach to coach in the Superbowl. Dungy and Lovie Smith are their OWN MEN and Marvin Lewis is the same way. Guys like DOC and others in the media cant TOUCH Marvin lewis and they know it. Marvin wont go the same way as Robinson, Larkin and Eric davis. He will fight back and the community will fight right along with him. GET OFF OF MARVIN LEWIS'S BACK.....this is not baseball
Big Mas
Your column today is way off. I can't believe that even came from you.
Even Tiger Woods has a bad round every now and then. You had a bad round with this article Paul. Keep up the good work otherwise.
And I guess sports columnists aren't good role models either.
Your defense of Joseph and the whole situation is very disappointing.
Don't forget..... these "minds" that need to "get right" are great book material.
Excessive talent is what we always hear about the Bengals. That is in the file of what-ifs that are part and parcel of the city's sports lore. In short order they include Krumrie's leg, Carson's knee, and Kenyon's leg. Who really knows? It's very subjective, the talent card.
After reading The Enquirer's latest installment on the Bengals v. Hamilton County a couple of Sundays ago, I have to wonder if all this off the field b.s. is not some form of poetic justice. First and foremost, does anyone in this town really care about the Bengals except for what they do for some 50 hours ever autumn? I don't. Not to sound cynical, but I could give a rat's *** about the personal lives of these guys. I think it's great when anyone who poses a threat to society is admonished, plain and simple. I'm sure 85 spends a lot of time pondering community issues.
To my point about the Bengals brass, to hear them cry about their image through their counsel is a joke. The team has played cat and mouse with the county for years. Somehow, the Bengals think they're doing us a favor by being here. I'm not so sure they are. The team fooled a naive taxpaing base a decade ago, and negotiated a very shrewd contract that will keep them in the city for close to twenty more years. So, at the risk of sounding heartless, why should anyone truly care about the Bengals other than what they do for those 50 some hours every autumn? Through their actions, they think we're fools.
Paul Daugherty get off your high horse... Are you serious....You are way off...yes I expect a 22 year old at act like one! Is that too much to ask? If so cut them all and let them regret thier actions and be piss poor on the street. This is where 95% of them would be anyway!
Paul,
You are right I wish the Steelers would have contacted him about their coaching job maybe he would have wanted to go home. Marvin is the worst clock manager in the league and also the worst with the media he has that same stupid grin on his face whether they win or loose maybe Marvin is their pot connection but if he is fired there would again be rioting in the streets of Cincinnati just like the Timothy Thomas incident because Marvin is black so I think we are stuck with one of the worst coaches in the league for as long as he wants to be here.
Annon 9:11.......people like the previous poster is exactly why many if not ALL African americans in this country feel so proud of the accomplishment of Dungy and Smith. Annon 9:11 is why blacks play the "scoreboard game" against white people in sports because unfortunatly there are still a good amount of racist still in our country and right here in Cincinnati where we live. thank you anon 9:11 for reminding us all why Dungy and Smith are so special to blacks all over the country. SCOREBOARD
If you mess with marvin you mess with us. marvin is not going out the same way Frank robinson, eric Davis, Barry larkin or the non treatment of Oscar robertson.
sincerely,
Black cincinnati
Holy Nine-Eleven, Batman!
9:11a.m., are you serious? How about some punctuation in that record-setting run-on sentence! What a goon...
And here's to you, 7:51a.m....with your 95% of the Bengals would be "piss poor and on the street..." if it weren't for football. The latest one arrested, Johnathan Joseph (MISTER Johnathan Joseph to you, you dweeb)wrote a dissertation on Socratic Reasoning and Deduction during while schooling at Carolina. It's what won him a FARBES MEDAL, honoring the best in collegiate compositions...and trust me, they check for plagiarism AND they interiew you on your subject to make sure nobody else wrote it for you. A Farbes Medal, you zeek!
Did he mess up? Sure did. Would he be on the street as you imply? Don't think so...in fact, the more likely scenario would be you mowing his lawn and trimming his bushes while he sits and drinks iced tea and watches you, telling you occasionally that you missed a spot.
What a Doofus...
Paul...
Colossal hypocrisy in your column today. The same latitude you grant to the current crop of Bengals you completely withheld from Bob Huggins.
To quote your column:
"Spare me the sanctimony. These guys aren't special. We just treat them that way."
Apply that to Bob and you might gain some insight into how a lot of UC faithful feel about the way he was treated by the administration.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander Paul--either they're all people with human frailties, or they should all be held to perfect standards of conduct. No flip-flopping allowed!
to 9:47... difference is, UC players were children. Bengals are, chronologically, adults. UC players are, theoretically, there to be instructed in the ways of adulthood. Bengals are there to win games. And write again when Marvin Lewis gets a DUI.
9:47 again--Paul--don't you think that sports figures set examples for "children". Who wears most of the merchandise sold by the NFL annually--children. Don't you think "children" model their behavior around what they see their idols do in the public arena?
My beef is not with Marvin--my beef is with your double standard. Either they are all people with human frailties, or they are all role models...
If your response is that the PARENTS should be primarily responsible for this--BINGO--I agree!! Same would go for college basketball players as well--as young men, their parents SHOULD have instructed them in the proper way to conduct themselves in the public arena. Sad fact is--they didn't (actually most of the NFL "products" we see misbehaving are simply products of the same system).
Bob did the best he could with what he was able to recruit--UC isn't UK or Duke or North Carolina--Bob had to take "at risk" kids and do the best he could with them. Considering the backgrounds of a lot of these kids, I think Bob succeeded more often than not.
A DUI?--that isn't what drove Bob out of town. It was a clash of egos which Nancy won at the expense of the University. She could have tried to help Bob with his problems--she could have tried to work WITH him--but she didn't want to do that--she wanted a head on a pike. Problem is, the next head on a pike may be hers...
In addition Paul--be careful trying to hold Lewis up as a paragon of virtue--how many potential felons has he recruited or helped recruit over his career. Let's look at some of the players he helped bring in for Baltimore: Ray Lewis--tell me about HIS moral fiber...ridiculous. You don't dance with people like that and have no stains on your own character.
Double standards Paul...Double standards...
What the hell? How the hell did we get from Paul discussing Marvin and how he feels he should make more of a solid effort in bringing in more respectable players to change the atmostphere in the locker room, comparing said situation to that of Indy and New England, to the Timothy Thomas riots and Bob Huggins "firing"? Boy how people digress...
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